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Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

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Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#41

Post by kristofferR »

ChemSpider wrote: post #36

> Careful and transparent collection of scientific information is essential Sure, I agree. But they make it sound like this is a global issue. But that is not true, and they know it. Nothing and nobody stops these scientists to check blood samples/animals/whatnot all over the world. The only country in the world that does not allow an open and transparent research into the origin of the pandemic is China - and yet th…

Yeah, and if China is so confident about the Wuhan lab not being the source, why prevent an investigation at massive costs to your reputation?

Most people now assume that China is "guilty" because they've figuratively "fled from the trial".

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#43

Post by pfortuny »

m0llusk wrote: post #14
pfortuny wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover: no statement on conflicts of interest (at least not readily available), possibly because it is “only” a letter (wish I could get one published in the lancet…). Rubbish.

You might not agree with what is stated, but the final paragraph is full of clarifications of interests. > PD's remuneration is paid solely in the form of a salary from EcoHealth Alliance, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organisation. EcoHealth Alliance's mission ... Funding for this work comes from ... EcoHealth Alliance's work in China was previously funded by ... PD joined the WHO–China joint global study on the animal ori…

Everywhere I publish, conflicts of interest appear under a specific heading though.

Thanks anyway.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#44

Post by ChemSpider »

FullStackAda wrote: post #32
3pt14159 wrote: post #8

I don't think anyone should be absolutely sure one way or another, but China is a pretty big place and the country only has two labs at that level. Coincidences happen, yes, but this one seems pretty unlikely.

On the other hand where does it make sense to build a lab that studies a pathogen? As far away as possible from pathogen's natural reservoir or close by?

The Wuhan lab is more than 1000 km away from related pathogen's natural reservoirs.

Shi Zhengli said this herself:

Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-wo...

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#45

Post by apalmer »

jxramos wrote: post #16

Can someone substantiate this idea that it's improbable for a virus to surmount these two evolutionary obstacles highlighted below? I'll copy the quote for the idea I've seen circulating, the bold part is the idea I'd like to hear challenged and would like to learn more about what its foundation is predicated upon. For ultimately, in order to create a human pandemic, an animal virus has to accomplish **two very diffi…

this statement is true but meaningless...

Majority of pandemics in history are a result of this rare in absolute terms occurrence.

In general diseases that are already highly evolved for their host, mostly innocuous... everyone gets the common cold like 2 times a year, 80% of people have herpes, etc... in most cases the pandemics are caused by diseases that have crossed the infection boundary but arent evolved enough to appropriate limit themselves, this commonly occurs because the disease recently jumped from one host to another..

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#46

Post by jMyles »

yonaguska wrote: post #4

Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis. Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

> Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

It does come across as completely shameless. But why include him if not for transparency? Obviously publishing without his name is a boost in credibility, so why not do so?

In any case, it's not a very well-written or convincing letter, so it's even more puzzling. This part really got me:

> Recently, many of us have individually received inquiries asking whether we still support what we said in early 2020.1 The answer is clear: we reaffirm our expression of solidarity with those in China who confronted the outbreak then, and the many health professionals around the world who have since worked to exhaustion, and at personal risk, in the relentless and continuing battle against this virus. Our respect and gratitude have only grown with time.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#47

Post by sailingparrot »

Ajay-p wrote: post #37

"It is time to turn down the heat of the rhetoric and turn up the light of scientific inquiry if we are to be better prepared to stem the next pandemic, whenever it comes and wherever it begins. " This statement sounds very disingenuous. Science should look at all aspects of the virus and consider if it leaked from a laboratory, in addition to other means of transmission. Dismissing one as simply "rhetoric" is antith…

> This statement sounds very disingenuous

I don't agree. The lab leak theory has a disproportionate share of the public discourse's space compared to it's scientific plausibility. So it's time to turn down (not off) the rhetoric, and evaluate all hypothesis in a scientific way. You will notice at no point in the article do they say that non-natural hypothesis should not be investigated, quite the opposite:

> "[...] whether it occurred wholly within nature or might somehow have reached the community via an alternative route, and prevent future pandemics."

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#48

Post by unanswered »

julienchastang wrote: post #13
unanswered wrote: post #5

Science is not an appropriate epistemic tool to answer an historical question.

Do you care to elaborate? For example, it was science ex post facto that established Luc Montagnier and not Robert Gallo was the first to isolate HIV [0]. Interestingly, Luc Montagnier has a role in the lab origin theory of SARS-CoV-2. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier

> Do you care to elaborate?

Not really because my viewpoint is not permitted on HN. Further discussion will likely draw moderator attention.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#49

Post by munawwar »

hereforphone wrote: post #29

Awhile back there was an article on the front page of HN which seemed to support the lab leak hypothesis. This was before that hypothesis gained traction. I checked back shortly thereafter and it was gone. I went through the history (scrolled through pages) and couldn't find it. Maybe it was a BS / questionable article. I don't know. But it seems we were eager to squash that line of thinking early on, whereas now it'…

Was it linked to this one? https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-...

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#50

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

A request for 'solidarity' is a soft corruption of the scientific method. The word suggests that we pursue something other than the truth. It's intrinsic. That the Lanclet publishes such a request, on a topic of public interest, by authors who are implicated in serious lapses and negligence-- this reflects a shocking lack of judgment by all involved and most notably the journal.
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