Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

telex.hu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 542 posts

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#41

Post by adrianN »

apexalpha wrote: post #23
bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

What's the point of becoming one nation if everyone has different languages?

There are a number of benefits, one that comes immediately to mind is having a common army and saving costs. Another one is that having a common currency, but not a common fiscal policy is not a good idea.

I don't think language differences are a problem. There are a couple of nations with multiple official languages.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#42

Post by jeroenhd »

bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

People are tribal by nature. They will get into fights because their neighbour supports the "wrong" sports club, and you can extend that up to any level. Within a country there's city vs city, city vs countryside, and above country level there's EU vs US, or "the west" vs "the east".

People group together with others that share certain cultural values. Ever since borders, passports and standard languages have been the norm, this has only been reinforced.

I don't feel culturally similar to many other European countries, most notable Hungary, Poland and some other countries that have been sliding towards the far right. I wouldn't want the people who voted Orban into power to outvote me, either.

Grand unification of humanity is a good ideal, one we should work towards, but it's not something that will be possible within our lifetimes. There are very practical reasons against the North American Alliance; for example, Canada has socialised healthcare, while you can't even get the suggestion off the ground in the US. Such political differences don't just disappear.

I don't want a European superstate because I disagree with most people that would live in it. My ideals would no longer be represented by my government. I think that's enough reason not to go for complete European unification. Opinions can change, so maybe some day we can all agree, but with Hungary fighting the free press and its people cheering Orban on, I can't say I expect this situation to change any time soon.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#43

Post by reader_mode »

blocked_again wrote: post #35
reader_mode wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic India and Pakistan should also merge.

No your logic was it's not possible to have a country with so much diversity. I just showed a counter example.

I know very little about history of India or the culture, but I guarantee you that creating such entity would result in a civil war, demonstrated throughout European history.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#44

Post by jeroenhd »

poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

There were thin provisions against member states getting out of hand, but they became useless the second Poland conspired with Hungary.

I'm not sure if I would've liked en EU with stricter punitive measures over its member states before all this, but it's clear that the measures to prevent situations like these have all failed.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#45

Post by ipatec »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #2

Orbán is a cancer on Europe, i really the EU has a decent response this time.

Between the power/control being taken over by someone elected and supported by most of his country or being taken over by some bigger organization like EU with very twisted interests... well.. I thing the first is preferred.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#46

Post by zsellera »

So far Orban's regime is the only eu/western government involved in this scandal. I see that no surprise.

There is no need of official government approval to conduct such surveillance. It's enough to have weak access contol to such technologies, political roles within the agencies, and poor work ethics in civil servants: there alway will be someone with will and motive to act in favor of the system, off the record. Orban deliberately shaped the government this way.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#47

Post by underscore_ku »

poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

EU is as helpless as USA. what would US of A do with a rogue Texas? nothing

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#48

Post by gznyirfa »

jsbdk wrote: post #9
NicoJuicy wrote: post #2

Orbán is a cancer on Europe, i really the EU has a decent response this time.

I'm not defending his actions as I have no horse in this race, but he seems to have the support of his country - why should the EU be above that?

Actually, the laws of elections have been "fixed" by Orban as a very first step - and media completely taken over to stream 100% propaganda 24/7 as a second step - so the "support" behind Orban is just like behind any other modern dictatorship - that uses mass media manipulation and election system upgrades instead of tortures and prisons.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#49

Post by pestaa »

jsbdk wrote: post #9
NicoJuicy wrote: post #2

Orbán is a cancer on Europe, i really the EU has a decent response this time.

I'm not defending his actions as I have no horse in this race, but he seems to have the support of his country - why should the EU be above that?

I'm not sure the premise is certain - in the last election his party received slightly less than half of the votes, however voting laws were altered in their own favor (managed to get super majority with My feeling is that even most of his voters don't like him, they just hate change more.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#50

Post by [deleted] »

underscore_ku wrote: post #47
poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

EU is as helpless as USA. what would US of A do with a rogue Texas? nothing

[deleted]
Post reply on HN