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“We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

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Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#41

Post by distances »

tpmx wrote: post #25
blfr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turns out AT&T operate on a whitelist system [1] ( What ? ) with a list [2] of phones. Sort of surprised but also not so surprised coming from an US Mobile Carrier. Pretty sure all carriers in Poland operate on a white list of phones. https://wificalling-volte.pl/

Having a white list of devices is pretty unusual in Europe, afaik.

Can confirm, I've worked with mobile phone related stuff for about 15 years and never before this article have I heard of a whitelist. My first reaction is that the concept sounds ridiculous, you're supposed to be able to put a SIM card to any device you find and just use it.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#42

Post by vetinari »

tpmx wrote: post #27
brianwawok wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Teslas (like 5+ years) will lose net when 3g goes. You can do a computer upgrade but I don’t think it’s cheap ($500-$1500 range offhand)

They really should have used an easily replaceable mPCIe cellular module. $50 replacement cost. Interface has been around since 2005.

Just because the old modules were mPCIe doesn't mean a new one will be too.

I have an Thinkpad T430s, that came with mPCIe 3G modem; for LTE, it was possible to find a replacement, but for 5G, I don't expect there will be any (any whitelists in firmware aside).

Or similarly, I have an openwrt router with mPCIe 802.11-ac wifi (Turris Omnia). It is not possible to replace them with -ax adapters, they all have m.2 interface.

With cars and other long-used goods I would expect the same problems.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#43

Post by tpmx »

vetinari wrote: post #42
tpmx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really should have used an easily replaceable mPCIe cellular module. $50 replacement cost. Interface has been around since 2005.

Just because the old modules were mPCIe doesn't mean a new one will be too. I have an Thinkpad T430s, that came with mPCIe 3G modem; for LTE, it was possible to find a replacement, but for 5G, I don't expect there will be any (any whitelists in firmware aside). Or similarly, I have an openwrt router with mPCIe 802.11-ac wifi (Turris Omnia). It is not possible to replace them with -ax adapters, they all have m.2 inter…

Sure, most have USB-only connections and some have actual PCIe connections (I suppose). And then there's the fragmentation at the software/AT command level.

Still, Tesla could have spent the software effort required to make it work with a few of the most common 3G/4G/(5G) modules from reputable manufacturers.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#44

Post by blfr »

distances wrote: post #41
tpmx wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a white list of devices is pretty unusual in Europe, afaik.

Can confirm, I've worked with mobile phone related stuff for about 15 years and never before this article have I heard of a whitelist. My first reaction is that the concept sounds ridiculous, you're supposed to be able to put a SIM card to any device you find and just use it.

That's exactly how it works, just without VoLTE and VoWiFi.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#45

Post by cortesoft »

dmm wrote: post #3

A few weeks ago I moved my sim from a broken LG V20 to a Oneplus 3t and att suspended my account. I wasn't sent a message or any kind of notification. My sim just stopped working. I had to call att support for 30+ minutes to find out that it was because the 3t doesn't support volte and get my account reactivated. The way att has been handling this transition has been really shitty. VOLTE is a banned subject on the li…

Not quite clear from your comment, it stopped working even when you switched it back to your old phone? Otherwise, it just sounds like your phone didn't work because it was incompatible, not because your account was banned.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#46

Post by mschuster91 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
jrockway wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeeed. Last time I looked these chips were $1300 each in quantities of 1000. Too expensive for even a luxury car. I think the answer here is an internal USB modem or something. Easy to upgrade. Just up to the car manufacturer to commit to writing new drivers. (I assume that they don't want to do this, so are probably happy when technology changes out from under them. Everyone has to buy a new car!)

What makes this silicon so expensive?

- Car stuff has to be certified in order to be road legal (in Europe, ECE marked)

- Car stuff has to deal with a way wider temperature range than normal consumer stuff (-40 to +125 °C). That is the thing that makes silicon so expensive.

- Car stuff has to deal with vibrations and mechanical stress, meaning more expensive PCBs, less options for solder (remember the infamous NVIDIA solder issue of ~2010?) and connectors

- Car voltage regulation is a hot mess, at least for ICE vehicles - IIRC during engine start, voltages can drop to something like 6-ish volts and after that (or during battery disconnects/other load dumps) into 120-ish volts, and the voltage has an awful lot of ripple because usual generators are AC that's driven through a diode rectifier, with the battery acting as stabilizer.

- Most stuff in cars requires hours of work to replace it - Tesla were to my knowledge the first ones who did software updates outside of shop visits at all.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#47

Post by jimmaswell »

miked85 wrote: post #9

BMW recently sent out an email of impending loss of 3G connectivity. > The decision to phase out 3G network technology was made at the discretion of the respective cellular carriers and lies beyond the control of BMW. As a result of the sunset of 3G service by wireless carrier partners, by February 2022 your vehicle will no longer be able to receive any ConnectedDrive/BMW Assist services, such as BMW Assist eCall, Ad…

The loss of 3G is going to be an unmitigated disaster it seems. Might even be appropriate for the FCC to step in and force them to keep it up.

A lesser loss is that 3G often works in a big crowd where LTE is overloaded. Maybe that'll at least change to 5G vs LTE over time.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#48

Post by wumpus »

tpmx wrote: post #27
brianwawok wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Teslas (like 5+ years) will lose net when 3g goes. You can do a computer upgrade but I don’t think it’s cheap ($500-$1500 range offhand)

They really should have used an easily replaceable mPCIe cellular module. $50 replacement cost. Interface has been around since 2005.

This is apparently a photo of the easily replaceable card that it's on: https://www.ebay.com/p/3035604932

I'm not sure how you plan on taking apart the dashboard for less than $50 of labor, though.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#49

Post by tpmx »

mschuster91 wrote: post #46
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes this silicon so expensive?

- Car stuff has to be certified in order to be road legal (in Europe, ECE marked) - Car stuff has to deal with a way wider temperature range than normal consumer stuff (-40 to +125 °C). That is the thing that makes silicon so expensive. - Car stuff has to deal with vibrations and mechanical stress, meaning more expensive PCBs, less options for solder (remember the infamous NVIDIA solder issue of ~2010?) and connector…

Regarding the temperature range; this procides a bit more detail and nuance:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/301826/how-t...

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#50

Post by tpmx »

wumpus wrote: post #48
tpmx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really should have used an easily replaceable mPCIe cellular module. $50 replacement cost. Interface has been around since 2005.

This is apparently a photo of the easily replaceable card that it's on: https://www.ebay.com/p/3035604932 I'm not sure how you plan on taking apart the dashboard for less than $50 of labor, though.

It doesn't have to be placed in the dashboard.
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