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When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

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Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#41

Post by smt88 »

vmception wrote: post #17
smt88 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

> the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or deal with the costs of long Covid still remains true and you didn’t present a counterpoint to that

Would you say the same thing about abortions? Just because a child was taught that contraception is evil, we shouldn't have to pay for her abortion?

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#42

Post by BJBBB »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #34
BJBBB wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We don't understand how to prevent obesity." Please reference below: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25196414/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3606061/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi... https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas... https://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/products/obesity-resear...

Read your first link. Literally, from the abstract: “The evidence base is limited in quantity and quality and insufficient to provide clear guidance“ [1]. The entire paper is about the “major evidence gaps.” [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25196414/

Which is why I included it first and did not bury it and did not ignore it on my search. But I will give you brownie and taco points for actually reading the references

I have read many scientific, peer-reviewed papers on this subject. There is too much 'insufficient' data and too much correlation/causation issues. I am a hardware engineer, so am driven, delimited, and succeed or fail on the veracity of my data. I can generally depend on good data provided by suppliers and its efficacy because it is based on Physics. I have read may MS and PhD papers in botany and cellular biology, and a few CDC/NIH/FDA papers on the OT. I will conjecture that there are too many life scientists on these research teams and not enough physical scientists and engineers.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#43

Post by justusw »

guilhas wrote: post #40
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

In UK more than 50% of deaths are vaccinated

Do you have a source on this?

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#44

Post by kcplate »

smt88 wrote: post #13
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

All I know is that if I was black, I’d have be damn distrustful considering the history of experimentation—especially when news came out last year that some folks at the CDC were advocating prioritizing the delivery of the “non-fda approved, experimental and rapidly developed” vaccine on people of color because “anti-racism.”

Not saying that the sentiment wasn’t genuine, but damn that is some poor optics considering the history.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#45

Post by inglor_cz »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #32
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same applies to obesity in your opinion? Of course not. We don’t understand how to prevent obesity. And losing weight—or keeping it off—involves more than visiting a Walgreens. Also, if you’re obese, you’re suffering the effects of obesity all the time. If you’re unvaccinated, you are fine 99% of the time. If you stay home as much as possible, wear a mask outdoors and avoid large gatherings, you’re likely to contin…

Losing weight == eating less. Not rocket science

And yet no country in the world, rich or poor, Western or non-Western, managed to reduce its obesity levels to, say, three quarters of the maximal value or less.

So it seems to be, in practice, a more complicated problem than reduction of smoking, which has been rather successful in many countries.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#46

Post by Rd6n6 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

I have one friend with an allergy. Their doctor said to not get the vaccine. They’re high risk. I hope this is a rare combo but some people have something to worry about as they get sent back to work

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#48

Post by bananabiscuit »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
briefcomment wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting proof of antibodies would be an even better way for everyone to get what they want right?

Unfortunately, no. Natural immunity is less durable against variants [1]. (Proof of exposure should be fine, though, for low-risk stuff in areas not undergoing an outbreak.) Given that and assuming we’ll have a permanently unvaccinated population, the virus would be expected to keep reinfecting that group, thereby increasing the selection pressure for strains that reinfect. [1] https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/2…

Does this study actually conclude that vaccination is better at preventing being infected with variants? It looked to me that the study only proves that specifically the spike protein antibodies from the vaccine bind more generally than spike protein antibodies generated by a natural infection.

However during the course of a natural infection, antibodies would be generated for more targets on the virus than just the spike protein, wouldn’t it? Meanwhile the vaccine exclusively produces spike protein antibodies. This study doesn’t make any statements about how much effect those additional antibodies would have against variants.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#49

Post by joezydeco »

smt88 wrote: post #13
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again

I sympathize with that statement, and maybe this is just semantics, but did we ask Black people to receive the vaccine first?

Everybody has equal access.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#50

Post by inglor_cz »

jasonlaramburu wrote: post #38
TheParkShark wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same applies to obesity in your opinion? The risks are very well known but people don’t do enough to prevent it and take care of themselves. Should obese people not relieve medical care due to their negligence and unwillingness to eat less?

Obese people cannot infect others.

To a degree, yes. Not literally, because obesity isn't caused by a bug. But kids born and raised by fat parents have a high probability of ending up fat too. In this case, obesity is transmitted to other people through internalization of bad eating habits.
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