Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#41

Post by MattGaiser » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #32

briefcomment wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is maintenance the cause of burnout then?

In my experience (and I think also in the spirit of the analogy), it's not just maintenance. It's expecting to maintain everything you've ever done while also simultaneously being expected to keep producing new work at the same rate (and then being expected to maintain that). It's that your work load seems to only increase. As the study found with regards to the causes of burnout, increased workload cited as the main…

This is too often ignored. Maintenance, even of applications which do not require new features, can often be non-trivial. In my past job, a lot of challenges were caused by the fact that nobody really budgeted for maintaining the existing stuff but it actually required 2 full time people to deal with.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#42

Post by dahfizz » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #40

dahfizz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then... Don't keep throwing out your tools?

Then... Don't plan on lasting more than 10 years in the software industry?

This is exclusively a problem with web development. I work in fintech, writing C and using the gnu toolchain. We are a very successful business.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#43

Post by MattGaiser » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

varelaz wrote: post #16

Developers are getting too spoiled. Did someone do the same research for teachers for example.

Given the turnover in teaching in many places, they are also burned out.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#44

Post by rantwasp » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #36

How much of the workload is just the dev shortage/insufficient staffing? I am currently the only dev on my team because of departures (there should be 4). Now, it is not really all that in production yet so it hasn't required late nights or waking up at odd hours, but it does linger in my mind that this could be a big issue if it grew a lot and my team didn't. I would hate to support it alone. A friend of mine is mis…

using interns as this is unacceptable.

is there a dev shortage or is there an expectation that you can hire people for cheap and work them to death?

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#45

Post by sethammons » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

luffapi wrote: post #29

codyswann wrote: post #6

This is why I have a tough time putting much weight into the soft-sciences. I don't see any operational definition of "Burnout" so this is like asking people if they feel "fast". How about something like "How many times a week do you feel like not coming into work?" But these subjective terms are useless.

You should be able to measure burnout by watching employee churn. Something software development is notorious for. I don’t think people jump companies every year and a half in most industries.

That's a very interesting insight! I was thinking of leading indicators and wasn't thinking lagging indicators like churn.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#46

Post by wonderwonder » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

I wonder if software presents a unique situation as we generally make a pretty decent salary and to transition to a new career involves a pretty significant pay cut. So some developers become trapped in jobs they hate with golden handcuffs. I really don't enjoy software development at all, but at this stage, to even think about doing something else would result in a massive pay cut. I did it once when I was younger, quit software and started a new career with a 55% pay cut. Liked the new work and did it for 5 years. Then I had kids and needed more money so I returned to software, since then I just exist in a constant state of burnout.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#47

Post by protonimitate » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #5

titzer wrote: post #2

If you were a professional painter and every couple of months, someone snuck into your art studio, threw out all your brushes, paint, canvas, and then dumped a huge load of requests for you to "fix" your old paintings, I'm pretty sure you'd get burned out pretty quick.

Is maintenance the cause of burnout then?

For me burnout comes from the endless treadmill of external pressures (arbitrary deadlines, changing requirements) and the endless treadmill of development work. There's not really ever a chance to step back and take a breath - just constantly moving from one high priority task to the next.

It's also a bit thankless, being good as this job, in a lot of cases, means you are moving really fast from one task to the next without any down time in between. I find it hard to get to a place where I can feel accomplished or proud of a piece of work, because the next fire/high-priority task is already "behind schedule".

I think part of it may also be due to the fact that the job is constant problem solving. Even though its nice to find solutions to problems, knowing you'll be perpetually in a state of "there is a problem that must be fixed" is taxing on mental health (for me at least).

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#48

Post by wonderwonder » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

luffapi wrote: post #29

codyswann wrote: post #6

This is why I have a tough time putting much weight into the soft-sciences. I don't see any operational definition of "Burnout" so this is like asking people if they feel "fast". How about something like "How many times a week do you feel like not coming into work?" But these subjective terms are useless.

You should be able to measure burnout by watching employee churn. Something software development is notorious for. I don’t think people jump companies every year and a half in most industries.

My last job lost all Sr. developers including me (I think 7 of 12 total developers) in an 8 month period. Everyone was absolutely fried and could not go on. Some of those people had been there between 4 and 10 years.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#49

Post by atlgator » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #46

I wonder if software presents a unique situation as we generally make a pretty decent salary and to transition to a new career involves a pretty significant pay cut. So some developers become trapped in jobs they hate with golden handcuffs. I really don't enjoy software development at all, but at this stage, to even think about doing something else would result in a massive pay cut. I did it once when I was younger,…

That's the problem I have. I really want to switch to finance but I make so much money now I dread starting over at $60k or something.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#50

Post by eplanit » Tue, Jul 13, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

varelaz wrote: post #16

Developers are getting too spoiled. Did someone do the same research for teachers for example.

I think we learned this past year that at least a few teachers are quite exceptionally spoiled (disappointing, and for me a bit surprising). Maybe I'm biased by the witnessing the antics of the California teachers union, but their ranks have been an embarrassment to the profession. Their continued push-back against returning to regular classes has grown tiresome (California has decided, with union pressure, to defy CDC guidelines and require masking and distancing despite vaccines and low risk -- "follow the science" is no longer spoken by them).

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-school-board...

https://meaww.com/alissa-piro-california-teacher-zoom-rant-h...