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Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

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Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#41

Post by bserge »

Envec83 wrote: post #2

Am I the only believing it should be a free market, where each company follows the strategy it prefers? Let the market decide if repairability is desired or not. If customers really want it, certainly there will be companies offering it. Much better to have millions voting with their money and purchases than a few bureaucrats deciding how they believe things should be.

The problem is most customers simply don't care. So they "choose" whatever the manufacturers give them.

One by one, remove the replaceable battery, remove the 3.5mm, remove the microSD card slot (and neuter it software side so it's near useless), some will complain, but the majority will just adapt to it, buying new phones more often, wireless earbuds, more expensive phones with more storage. Just as the companies wanted.

Looking back, the majority will see all the things they lost but by then it's too late (or not, change can happen thanks to movements like RTR).

So, the free market works more like tyranny of the majority in practice.

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#42

Post by bserge »

pmoriarty wrote: post #27
Envec83 wrote: post #2

Am I the only believing it should be a free market, where each company follows the strategy it prefers? Let the market decide if repairability is desired or not. If customers really want it, certainly there will be companies offering it. Much better to have millions voting with their money and purchases than a few bureaucrats deciding how they believe things should be.

The US had a "free market" in the age of the robber barrons[1] and before the creation of the FDA, where companies did what they wanted and "let the market decide". It was a nightmare. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

Sounds like early industrial/Victorian era Britain.

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#43

Post by disruptthelaw »

Envec83 wrote: post #2

Am I the only believing it should be a free market, where each company follows the strategy it prefers? Let the market decide if repairability is desired or not. If customers really want it, certainly there will be companies offering it. Much better to have millions voting with their money and purchases than a few bureaucrats deciding how they believe things should be.

I’m with you comrade https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27762177

I too got downvoted

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#44

Post by disruptthelaw »

bserge wrote: post #41
Envec83 wrote: post #2

Am I the only believing it should be a free market, where each company follows the strategy it prefers? Let the market decide if repairability is desired or not. If customers really want it, certainly there will be companies offering it. Much better to have millions voting with their money and purchases than a few bureaucrats deciding how they believe things should be.

The problem is most customers simply don't care. So they "choose" whatever the manufacturers give them. One by one, remove the replaceable battery, remove the 3.5mm, remove the microSD card slot (and neuter it software side so it's near useless), some will complain, but the majority will just adapt to it, buying new phones more often, wireless earbuds, more expensive phones with more storage. Just as the companies wa…

The solution to that is for savvy consumers like us to band together and form a non governmental ratings agency that gives a stamp of approval to products that meet a repair standard. Same as “certified free range” or “certified kosher” food. Or if we insist of policy intervention then we should just force companies to have a label specifying if the product is repairable or not. That on its own should be a sufficient intervention to influence buying behavior but maintains free choice for everyone

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#45

Post by kiba »

trentnix wrote: post #32
aequitas wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a truly free market you need to abolish patents, trademarks, DRM and a lot of other laws as well. How else are other companies free to compete or consumers free to choose? The current market does not exist in a vacuum.

You are describing a "free for all" market, not a "free market". Protection for patents and trademarks is absolutely compatible with a "free market" economy. But that doesn't mean that all patents and trademarks that have been granted are valid. The patent and trademark system needs work, but the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater.

The patent and trademark system needs work, but the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater.

There's so many kinds and examples of egregious behaviors by patent holders that you have to wonder if we're just better off with starting from scratch and deal with the tradeoff that may come with it.

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#46

Post by dlivingston »

bserge wrote: post #41
Envec83 wrote: post #2

Am I the only believing it should be a free market, where each company follows the strategy it prefers? Let the market decide if repairability is desired or not. If customers really want it, certainly there will be companies offering it. Much better to have millions voting with their money and purchases than a few bureaucrats deciding how they believe things should be.

The problem is most customers simply don't care. So they "choose" whatever the manufacturers give them. One by one, remove the replaceable battery, remove the 3.5mm, remove the microSD card slot (and neuter it software side so it's near useless), some will complain, but the majority will just adapt to it, buying new phones more often, wireless earbuds, more expensive phones with more storage. Just as the companies wa…

Is removing ports really equivalent to tyranny? Is it damning that modern computers don’t have floppy disk drives anymore, or 56k modems, or VGA ports?

At what point in a technology lifecycle does discontinuing support for that technology stop becoming “tyranny”?

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#47

Post by kiba »

FpUser wrote: post #38
trentnix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing a "free for all" market, not a "free market". Protection for patents and trademarks is absolutely compatible with a "free market" economy. But that doesn't mean that all patents and trademarks that have been granted are valid. The patent and trademark system needs work, but the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater.

>"The patent and trademark system needs work, but the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater" This baby is only protecting big corps now. Nothing can be done at the moment without violating some "rounded corners" patent. The only reason individuals can get away with it for a while is that it is not worth for patent holders chasing. As soon as they make some money the vultures come down.

Innovators absolutely do get their stuff patented, but it's no guarantee that they will continue to act as innovators rather than rest on their laurel. The current 3d printing scene was held back by pioneers in the field until patents expire. You could say that today is really the golden age of 3D printing.

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#48

Post by s_dev »

jsiepkes wrote: post #21
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #17

Steve Wozniak is such a pure soul.

He certainly comes across as a nice guy. But he also has his own crypto-coin so pure soul might be a bit of a stretch.

I don't like this "guilty by association" trend that has become popular. Steve has a crypto-coin -- so what? That means what exactly?

The implication you're making is that he is either knowingly damaging the environment, scamming vulnerable people or wasting energy without having to do anything to support that assertion.

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#49

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

ekianjo wrote: post #24
hellbannedguy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder what the world would look like if Woz got his wish to not bury the Apple II (Which had a huge amount of ports for tinkerers/electronic maker type enthusiasts). I was too young for the Apple II, but as a kid I saw a father working with his in his garage. He was always inventing something, and connecting it to the Apple. In a way, it was one if the first Raspberry pi's? Kinda?

The Commodore 64 was much more akin to the Raspberry Pi's. You didn't have to be rich to have one.

Really there were a lot of contenders for this title in the 8-bit micro age. I'd say I miss it, but I was too young to be a part of it. Sometimes I think I was born a generation late.

Re: Steve Wozniak speaks on Right to Repair [video]

#50

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Envec83 wrote: post #2

Am I the only believing it should be a free market, where each company follows the strategy it prefers? Let the market decide if repairability is desired or not. If customers really want it, certainly there will be companies offering it. Much better to have millions voting with their money and purchases than a few bureaucrats deciding how they believe things should be.

I think that's a perfectly fair opinion, but the HN-gestalt entity seems to be all for free-market solutions when it comes to things like Uber and DoorDash where they can make a lot of money being a "disruptive" "software engineer" at the expense of other people, while simultaneously bemoaning any application of free market on their social networks and phone operating systems.

Personally, I don't really believe "free markets" are inherently good and would prefer something like a "fair market" that helps ensure competition doesn't get easily shut out by big players and generally limits their ability to make people's lives worse for the sake of profit.

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