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In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

theguardian.com

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Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#41

Post by Fricken »

lmilcin wrote: post #9
breitling wrote: post #3

Unfortunately, this seems to be the new norm. Even in Canada, we are breaking records for heat. Temperatures have reached 49 C / 120 F Despite that, I believe Canada will be a major recipient of these climate refugees when places just get too hot to live in. That'll also be an option reserved for the privileged.

The problem is that you can't easily move hundreds of millions of people. When the weather becomes lethal, these people are going to die. The only realistic solution is building infrastructure to let people live through the worst of the weather. If it is as bad as it is described in the article, I worry about long term prospects of stable economy and progress, what with people occupied mostly with trying to survive a…

I think if hundreds of millions of people were faced with unliveable conditions, they would be strongly incentivized to move themselves. Also, it would more likely be a migration that plays out over the span of, say, a generation.

In 2020 it was estimated that 55 million people were displaced due to climate and weather events, more than 3 times the number displaced by conflict and violence. So the mass migration is already well under way.

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#42

Post by CodeGlitch »

Are we going to have to start living underground? I went to Beer Caves [0] in the UK recently, where I was told that no matter the outside temperature it was always a consistent temperature within the caves (which was great for mushroom farming in the caves).

Obviously living in a cave is not great, but properly built underground habitats?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Quarry_Caves

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#43

Post by MomoXenosaga »

signal11 wrote: post #11

If I understand this right, this is not just the heat, but the humidity as well. The UK Daily Telegraph had an article[1] about how nearby Jacobabad crossed the 35C wet bulb reading threshold, at which point — according to the article — the body can no longer cool itself. I assume Karachi isn’t that bad yet. A cursory Google search showed a wet bulb reading of 27C for Karachi — still very hot but not life-threatening…

You could argue that lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty will make things worse. They will all want air-conditioning.

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#44

Post by vimacs2 »

bloopernova wrote: post #24

The tone of so many articles and comments online seems to be "Shrug, not much we can do about it". Or pedantically arguing about minutia. Between this and the pandemic response in so many places, I'm not so sure humanity is going to be around in a century or two. The rich will live in climate controlled domes on remote islands or ships, while billions of people starve, overheat, or fight over scraps. The global "elit…

I'm pretty sure the elite are going to meet their reckoning long before they get to live in climate controlled domes. It's going to make the French Revolution look like a pillow fight.

I don't reallly think we're even at a real risk of actual extinction though. We as a species have gone through far more traumatic climate change in the past. Modern civilisation might collapse but humanity before the hubris of the state and capital - hunter gatherers and nomads will just continue business as always. Even many modern anemeties might be able to persist using more decentralised and sustainable fabrication methods. We will have to make up for the breakdown of those supply chains but there are many alternatives to modern electronics that are not being persued because the status quo is currently more economical.

Hopefuly, the next iteration of civilisation will do a better job of stewardship with the planet instead of being a pest.

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#45

Post by unmole »

twobuy wrote: post #25
lmilcin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is India. A lot of people just don't live close to a body of water. Getting any water is a huge issue. Can you imagine millions of people running to cool in the river? What with elderly and children?

Pakistan, not India

Akhand Bharat /s

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#46

Post by mr-wendel »

bloopernova wrote: post #24

The tone of so many articles and comments online seems to be "Shrug, not much we can do about it". Or pedantically arguing about minutia. Between this and the pandemic response in so many places, I'm not so sure humanity is going to be around in a century or two. The rich will live in climate controlled domes on remote islands or ships, while billions of people starve, overheat, or fight over scraps. The global "elit…

> The global "elite" rich have a serious blind-spot though: They never seem to realize that they rely on a massive robust web of interconnected humanity to support their wealth and privilege.

I'm not particularly convinced of this line of argumentation. The amount of hubris and ignorance required would be truly astonishing. My take, based on misc readings from folks who have one foot in said world, is that the global elite rich are absolutely aware of this.

Furthermore, they're actively debating the problem for the simple reason of self-preservation. They want to keep their station in life: their in-groups, all their "toys", etc. They are viscerally aware of the growing disillusioned on all sides of the spectrum and an increasing willingness of the disenchanted to burn it down instead of playing what is perceived (rightly?) to be a rigged game.

Overall, it's hardly benevolent, and questionably competent. Some individuals most certainly are both; some far from either. Regardless, I do believe that sheer greed alone will mean they'll be throwing themselves as these problems if only to keep some semblance of the "good ol' days".

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#47

Post by 3327 »

OJFord wrote: post #6
3327 wrote: post #2

Stop complaining about the hot weather please and focus on more pressing global issues. Karachi has had 44 C before like many other places. In fact, mean temp of Karachi is 32 C in June - which is not Low at all. https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/pakistan/karachi/climate and 68% percentile high temp is 35 C. The highest temp on record for Karachi was nearly 48 C - in 1938. For sure 44 C is not Cool - but also not w…

This comment was dead, and I expect it to be unpopular (the sentiment always is) - but I'm vouching for it because by linking some data it's at least as substantive as the submission, regardless of whether it's right or wrong.

Thank you - which was precisely the point I was trying to make.

further the 1938 high is also fact checked but not linked.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/323470-when-did-karachi-wi...

My goal is to highlight some of the echo-chamber bias on HN. One "interestingly dead" comment at a time.

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#48

Post by signal11 »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #42

Are we going to have to start living underground? I went to Beer Caves [0] in the UK recently, where I was told that no matter the outside temperature it was always a consistent temperature within the caves (which was great for mushroom farming in the caves). Obviously living in a cave is not great, but properly built underground habitats? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Quarry_Caves

Underground does sound promising but doing it at scale for a large number of people… I wonder how viable that is, and if it’ll cause structural issues at the surface. Also in this specific case they may need dehumidifiers.

The other option is heat pumps that exchange heat with the ground. These are slowly becoming more popular in the UK, for instance, but aren’t cheap.

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#49

Post by dennis_jeeves »

Unless I see resonantly well documented rising temperatures, I'm not inclined to believe that there are climate extremes any different from what are normal variations. ( and no this does not mean we get a free pass to mess up the environment, which IMO need to be cleaned up big time).

People have very short memories, and often it is the _current_ summer/winter that appears to be the harshest to them, not the one that happened 20 years ago. Memories are even more shorter when it is generational.

Re: In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die

#50

Post by lmilcin »

Fricken wrote: post #41
lmilcin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can't easily move hundreds of millions of people. When the weather becomes lethal, these people are going to die. The only realistic solution is building infrastructure to let people live through the worst of the weather. If it is as bad as it is described in the article, I worry about long term prospects of stable economy and progress, what with people occupied mostly with trying to survive a…

I think if hundreds of millions of people were faced with unliveable conditions, they would be strongly incentivized to move themselves. Also, it would more likely be a migration that plays out over the span of, say, a generation. In 2020 it was estimated that 55 million people were displaced due to climate and weather events, more than 3 times the number displaced by conflict and violence. So the mass migration is a…

I think you do not understand.

When a heat wave comes the people will not be able to "move" themselves.

Most of these people don't have means to do so in best of times.

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