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Why My Father Hated India

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Re: Why My Father Hated India

#41
post #9

The article was unexpectedly heart wrenching to read. India takes its very name from the Indus valley that lies in Pakistan, while the most famous example of Islamic architecture is the Taj Mahal in India. It is sad watching the two countries' governments waste time, energy and lives in a conflict that is essentially at a stalemate.

India's original name was 'Bharata'. It still is one of the legal names of the country as per the constitution. The name India has it's roots in Latin and not in Sanskrit, the original language of Bharata.

Details here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_India

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#42
During Indo-Pak partition in 1947 the agreement is that all Muslim majority regions should be merged with Pakistan and all Hindu majority regions should be merged with India.

India betrayed by annexing Muslim majority Kashmir and Hyderabad.

UNSC passed multiple resolutions since 1948 advising India, Pakistan & China to give Independence to Kashmir, Tibet & Aksai Chin.

Obsession with Kashmir is burning rest of the India.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#43
post #42

During Indo-Pak partition in 1947 the agreement is that all Muslim majority regions should be merged with Pakistan and all Hindu majority regions should be merged with India. India betrayed by annexing Muslim majority Kashmir and Hyderabad. UNSC passed multiple resolutions since 1948 advising India, Pakistan & China to give Independence to Kashmir, Tibet & Aksai Chin. Obsession with Kashmir is burning rest of the Ind…

It is not buring rest of India. Also Kashmeer is a pretty much part of India and Indians love it. WE recently conducted a series of engineering workshops in Kashmeer. We were very surprised with the kind of enthusiasm the young crowd showed towards us. They were upset that because of few antisocial elements supported mostly by Pakistan they are unable to aspire their dreams like rest of the Indians. As far as legalities are concerned: http://satyameva-jayate.org/category/jammu-kashmir-related/

The problem cant not be solved on this forum but the hope is Pakistan is probably breathing it's last, it will get consumed in it's own fire of hatred sooner or later.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#44
post #42

During Indo-Pak partition in 1947 the agreement is that all Muslim majority regions should be merged with Pakistan and all Hindu majority regions should be merged with India. India betrayed by annexing Muslim majority Kashmir and Hyderabad. UNSC passed multiple resolutions since 1948 advising India, Pakistan & China to give Independence to Kashmir, Tibet & Aksai Chin. Obsession with Kashmir is burning rest of the Ind…

Hyderabad state had Muslim rulers but not a Muslim majority.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#45
post #15

Being a Pakistani (and Punjabi) American myself, I do not agree with some of the views the author puts forward. First, Pakistanis do define themselves primarily as 'non-Indians'. However, the view that Pakistan has somehow carved out a new identity is the past 60 years is false. 5,000 years of shared heredity, language, customs and political history don't shake off that easily. Even Pakistanis and their relationship…

Could not resist, creating a throw away account, just for replying to a topic, which is very close to my heart.

About me: I am a liberal in world view, but a practicing Muslim. And not nationalistic, but love India and what it represents.

Brother, your note is well thought out and well meaning. The idea of a "West India" is very novel. And it appeals to me. But at the same time, I would like to give a sense to you of what its like to be an Indian Muslim of the upper class, in response to your "...being a minority in a Hindu majority India ultimately would have a ruinous effects on Indian Muslims".

On Prejudice: It will be a falsity to say, that there is no prejudice at all. As obviously India is not a utopia. But also, suffice to say, that the majority of the people (and that would naturally be more Hindus than others) one encounters in life are very secular and welcoming. And by and large India is a meritocracy. The Muslims suffer more, because of their own backward cultural mind set than anything else. For example, lots of relatives who are not doing well in life would complain about prejudice in job selections, etc. for not doing so well in life. But its very apparent to me, that the fault lies more with their attitudes towards life - not wanting to put enough hard work.

On Government/Establishment's attitude to secularism: I am actually utmost thankful, to the founding fathers of the nation like Gandhi and Nehru, that they did not cast the nation as a tit-for-tat reflection of the way Pakistan was founded. By and large, India is a secular nation, and that notion is oft repeated and maintained by media, politicians and the like. I can safely say, that being a Muslim in India is perhaps 1000 times better than being a Hindu in Pakistan.

On representation of Muslims in various domains: There are countless examples: To cite a few random people: in the business world Azim Premji (founder of Wipro) is one of the most respected. The bollywood is totally dominated by the Khans (so much so that one popular movie 'The Wednesday' had a joke on a Hindu actor belonging to the 'minority' hence needing more protection). Sports: India is Cricket Crazy, like Pakistan, and in the past few years, 2-3 Muslims have been making the 11 (which is more than the %age of Muslim population in India). And since I am randomly giving examples, I can as well cite myself (a hacker news reading, tech geek, aspiring to change the world (at least India) using programming ...think we will all agree is not any less of an aspiration than aspiring to be a movie star :-) )

In fact I would go ahead and say, that had Pakistan not being created, the position of Muslims in the region, would have been all the more stronger. Even after creation of Pakistan on the basis of religion, by and large Muslims are very welcome in a pluralistic society that India is. So what if, if the poet Iqbal, had dreamt that dream of his a bit more inclusively.

But yes, things can be better. There is a right wing here as well (liberal Americans should immediately think of GOP), and they want to pander to the extremists sentiments and every decade or so things get out of hand (most recent being Gujarat 2002). So yes, honestly, there are problems.

I think, the model for India, for establishing a just and civil society within, should be like that of the USA. America has a history of committing mistakes, Slavery and the treatment of the black people. But they came out of it so strongly within such a short period of time. Thanks partly to great people like Martin Luther King.

So India, also has a choice. Just like every nation has a choice all the time. By and large it has done very well. But it needs to keep doing well.

And lastly, I wish, you Pakistanis also all the best. Peace.

Edit: Fixed a grammar error.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#47
post #15

Being a Pakistani (and Punjabi) American myself, I do not agree with some of the views the author puts forward. First, Pakistanis do define themselves primarily as 'non-Indians'. However, the view that Pakistan has somehow carved out a new identity is the past 60 years is false. 5,000 years of shared heredity, language, customs and political history don't shake off that easily. Even Pakistanis and their relationship…

oh really muslims are a minority and handled badly in INDIA,infact handling is so bad that:

* Pilgrimage to Mecca is subsidized by Indian Goverment. * Imam freely talks in support of terrorists.

* Every company offers prayer rooms and allows time to pray. They do not make Temples or allow hindus to take a leave for going to Temples.

* Muslims freely block national highway on eid to show the strength in the name of offering prayer.

* Muslim population is on the rise and India has got more Muslims than Pakistan.

Re: Why My Father Hated India

#48
post #15

Being a Pakistani (and Punjabi) American myself, I do not agree with some of the views the author puts forward. First, Pakistanis do define themselves primarily as 'non-Indians'. However, the view that Pakistan has somehow carved out a new identity is the past 60 years is false. 5,000 years of shared heredity, language, customs and political history don't shake off that easily. Even Pakistanis and their relationship…

I have heard that most of the rich Muslims in India, and many middle-class ones, migrated to Pakistan in 1947. But among the poor, only a small number were able to migrate. As a result, in the post-Independence India, a disproportionately large number of Muslims were poor. However, I believe this is only true for areas near the border. For people who lived far away from the border, it was difficult to emigrate, and so most of the stayed put. For example, Azim Premji, India's richest Muslim, is from Hyderabad, which is far from the India-Pakistan border.

However, it is also true that there is some discrimination against Muslims in India. I've seen it first-hand (I'm nominally a Hindu). However, you probably hear an exaggerated version of it in Pakistan. And, we non-muslim Indians also discriminate against each other: rich vs poor, north Indians vs south Indians, native people of a state vs people from out-of-state, etc. So, the experience is not unique to Muslims.

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