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Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

seattletimes.com

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Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#41

Post by nl »

taneq wrote: post #12
jmclnx wrote: post #10

I wonder why ? Could it be because of all the spyware M/S has on Windows 10 ? Nice for one stop shopping

I wonder why the downvotes? This is absolutely correct. I’d be interested to know how many similar requests Apple and Google get.

Downvotes are likely by people who read the article:

> “Most shocking is just how routine secrecy orders have become when law enforcement targets an American’s email, text messages or other sensitive data stored in the cloud,” said Burt, describing the widespread clandestine surveillance as a major shift from historical norms.

So it's mostly communications data stored in the cloud. We know Apple and Google receive similar requests because they also release data:

https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html (US: 4600 devices in Jan-Jul 2021)

https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview?hl=... (US: about 60,000 in 2019)

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#42

Post by karmeliet »

xyst wrote: post #32

Is there a law that prevents companies from completely encrypting their data at rest? Data should only be decrypted if the person(s) have the private keys. Government entities can request the information all they want but all they will get is an encrypted dump. You will need to ask the person that owns the private keys to decrypt or just pound sand (there are laws preventing self incrimination, so private keys should…

Actually, you can do that already in M365 with Double Key Encryption [1]. The obvious trade-off though is that none of the cloud services will be able to work with your data. For example you won't be able to search or open the document inside the browser which basically renders your SaaS environment (partially) just a plain cloud storage.

DKE should not be confused with any other BYOK service, where you only manage the key, but host it on Azure so MS still has access to you private key.

I think there could be middle ground where customers could select a set of metadata that they are willing to share with the cloud provider or even better, select only the sensitive parts of the document that must be encrypted with their own key.

[1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/compliance/do...

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#44

Post by adjkant »

enkid wrote: post #22
xyzzyz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I care about spending as percent of GDP? The absolute spending still went up. This is like saying your rent didn’t go up because now you are making more money so you can afford it more easily. This might be true, but it still went up. Moreover, after end of Cold War, it should have went down a lot not just in percentage terms, but also in absolute ones.

Absolute military spending is a ridiculous metric because inflation is a thing. Spending by percent of GDP is much more reasonable. For example, the US spent something like $75 billion in 1943, but no one would argue were putting 10xs as much effort in the military in 2019 when we spent ~750 billion. Looking at absolute values instead of either ones adjusted for inflation or by percent of GDP is cherrypicking to supp…

There's a nuanced point here that looking at GDP % vs inflation adjusted yields different results depending on the range. For example, from 1982-1990, military spending was up, even after adjusting for inflation. It was actually 1990-2000 where military spending actually decreased, both before and after adjusting for inflation.

Compare that to GDP % which would indicate a steady decline in spending. So now we very much do have to examine GDP here in order to look at the argument specifics if we care about 1982-1990. With that said, the cold war ended around 1991, so the military stagnation is more or less in line with the cold war ending. The context missing on the original claim is simply that spending shot right back up once American mucked up and got itself stuck in the middle east, being involved in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

But hey, none of this relates to the original post at all really - that claim was not actually doing any lifting in the original argument other than to serve as a light illustration of how the military spending is never cut in a significant way, and that is generally true save a small exception from 2011-2015. The best that can happen is an effective slow cut through stagnation. And all of THAT is just to say that the government gets pushback when trying to walk back policies.

So did it ever really matter how the cold war affected spending here? What's the point of calling this super nuance out?

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#45

Post by cudgy »

“… Justice Department prosecutors obtained as part of leak investigations phone records belonging not only to journalists but also to members of Congress and their staffers.“

Eek! These illegal violations of privacy must stop now that congressman and their staffers are being surveilled too!

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#46

Post by AbstractFactor »

enkid wrote: post #17
mc32 wrote: post #8

Once the security apparatuses and their methods are entrenched it's hard for them to go back. Congress was spied on, a US presidential candidate that we know of was spied on... So imagine plain old American citizens... what can we expect? If congress isn't willing to take back what they allowed, they aren't going to stop all by themselves. If congress tried, they'd get a lot of pushback. Just like the Armed forces wo…

US military spending dropped by about half when you look at GDP between 1982 and 1999, so your statements about the Cold War ending not affecting spending is just straight up incorrect. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/mili...

The military budget listed there is lower than the military budget, as it does not count veteran's benefits as military budget. It does not count interest paid this year on military spending debt accumulated last year (or in any previous year) as military spending. It has to strictly limit the definition of what military spending is to get as low as the cited number.

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#47

Post by enkid »

adjkant wrote: post #44
enkid wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolute military spending is a ridiculous metric because inflation is a thing. Spending by percent of GDP is much more reasonable. For example, the US spent something like $75 billion in 1943, but no one would argue were putting 10xs as much effort in the military in 2019 when we spent ~750 billion. Looking at absolute values instead of either ones adjusted for inflation or by percent of GDP is cherrypicking to supp…

There's a nuanced point here that looking at GDP % vs inflation adjusted yields different results depending on the range. For example, from 1982-1990, military spending was up, even after adjusting for inflation. It was actually 1990-2000 where military spending actually decreased, both before and after adjusting for inflation. Compare that to GDP % which would indicate a steady decline in spending. So now we very mu…

This is the only data point the poster had which supported their argument and it was factually incorrect, whether you look at inflation adjusted or as a percentage of GDP. Now, whether to use inflation adjusted or as a percentage of GDP is a valid argument, but doesn't change the fact the poster is wrong, and I don't think this is the forum where it really is going to get resolved.

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#48

Post by enkid »

AbstractFactor wrote: post #46
enkid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US military spending dropped by about half when you look at GDP between 1982 and 1999, so your statements about the Cold War ending not affecting spending is just straight up incorrect. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/mili...

The military budget listed there is lower than the military budget, as it does not count veteran's benefits as military budget. It does not count interest paid this year on military spending debt accumulated last year (or in any previous year) as military spending. It has to strictly limit the definition of what military spending is to get as low as the cited number.

Totally unrelated to the discussion. VA budget and the DoD budget are different line items and this is not what the OP was talking about, so does not matter in this context.

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#49

Post by sneak »

cudgy wrote: post #45

“… Justice Department prosecutors obtained as part of leak investigations phone records belonging not only to journalists but also to members of Congress and their staffers.“ Eek! These illegal violations of privacy must stop now that congressman and their staffers are being surveilled too!

Who's to stop them when the watchers now have blackmail information on the entirety of the legislature and judiciary?

Have you considered for a moment that NSA and CIA have the phone numbers and location track logs of every mistress, hooker, and drug dealer used by every member of congress?

Re: Microsoft exec: Targeting of Americans’ records ‘routine’

#50

Post by sneak »

taneq wrote: post #12
jmclnx wrote: post #10

I wonder why ? Could it be because of all the spyware M/S has on Windows 10 ? Nice for one stop shopping

I wonder why the downvotes? This is absolutely correct. I’d be interested to know how many similar requests Apple and Google get.

Apple turns over customer data on over 30,000 users per year without a warrant. It's in their transparency report under FISA orders.

No probable cause is required.

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