Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi • Hacker News Board

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#41

Post by edwcross » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 7:13 AM UTC

fomine3 wrote: post #38

boomboomsubban wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both those countries also have sixty years of exposure to cheese through the US military presence, the change may be fairly recent and may be somewhat limited to areas foreigners are likely to go.

Cheeses (mostly processed cheese) are pretty common food (at least than funazushi) in Japan everywhere at least for 20 years. It seems that lactose in cheese isn't much high.

That can be checked by looking at "sugars" in the Nutrition Facts table: lactose is a sugar, and most cheeses do not have added sugar (well, at least "ordinary" ones). If the "sugars" row is at zero or "traces", that means all the lactose has been digested by the bacteria.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#42

Post by Sophistifunk » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 7:26 AM UTC

distantaidenn wrote: post #33

dcolkitt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From conversations I've had with East Asians, I think many think of cheese in general as a pretty gross food.

Interesting. In my experience, living in Japan and Korea, cheese is everywhere -- sometimes in dishes you wouldn't even expect. I wonder if age is a factor in your observations.

Honestly it's mostly just the Chinese (except those living nearer to Russia) who hate cheese.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#43

Post by Sophistifunk » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 7:26 AM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #22

dcolkitt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From conversations I've had with East Asians, I think many think of cheese in general as a pretty gross food.

East Asians are the most lactose-intolerant humans. I assume that's a factor.

Africans are, as far I know. And it's the mouth-feel of cheese the Chinese hate.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#44

Post by Clewza313 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

distantaidenn wrote: post #33

dcolkitt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From conversations I've had with East Asians, I think many think of cheese in general as a pretty gross food.

Interesting. In my experience, living in Japan and Korea, cheese is everywhere -- sometimes in dishes you wouldn't even expect. I wonder if age is a factor in your observations.

"Cheese" in Japan tends to be mild, inoffensive "Kraft Singles" type processed cheese (in taste/texture, that is, actual form factors vary). Stronger tasting cheeses of any kind (sharp hard cheeses, white or blue cheese, etc) remain quite niche.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#45

Post by Clewza313 » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 8:20 AM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #36

sushi in kyoto was similar to this. some kind of fermented suhsi. it was ok, prefer the new tokyo style kind lol

If the sushi was served in pressed, compact slices, you likely had oshizushi ("pressed sushi"), which is is fairly common in the Kansai area around Kyoto. The fish used is typically lightly pickled, not full-on fermented, but it's definitely quite different from "regular" Edomae sushi.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#46

Post by dagw » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 8:27 AM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #21

dllthomas wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the Poles seem to think of their pickled herring this way, but it's just genuinely tasty all of the three ways I've had it.

When we Dutch buy Hollanse Nieuwe (herring of this year) we get asked if we want 'ui en zuur erbij?' ('onion and sour with it?'). The sour are pickles. I wouldn't want my herring without either. Maybe lutefisk counts, but I don't think so. Fermentation has to be done correct, else it is dangerous. That's where the gross feeling stems from; it has/had a purpose.

Maybe lutefisk counts

Lutefisk isn't fermented, and has a mild smell and tastes of unseasoned boiled white fish with a slightly 'off' aftertaste. While most people don't particularly like it, it is hardly off putting unless you find boiled fish in general off putting.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#47

Post by majewsky » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:01 AM UTC

shoto_io wrote: post #19

dllthomas wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sashimi isn't sushi. Sushi literally means "sour rice". In the version of it I know (probably from a Good Eats episode), fish was "fermented packed in rice" (probably a gloss of this process) leading to... sour rice and fish. The modern practice of getting sour rice by mixing in some rice vinegar is an evolution of a much faster approximation of that dish.

Interesting. So Sauerkraut and Sushi have similar roots. Sauerkraut was also fermented in the old days. Now, vinegar is used, which btw kills any useful fermentation bacteria.

If your Sauerkraut is not made through fermentation using lactic acid bacteria, you got a cheap knockoff.

Source: I'm German.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#48

Post by vanderZwan » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #47

shoto_io wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So Sauerkraut and Sushi have similar roots. Sauerkraut was also fermented in the old days. Now, vinegar is used, which btw kills any useful fermentation bacteria.

If your Sauerkraut is not made through fermentation using lactic acid bacteria, you got a cheap knockoff. Source: I'm German.

Agreed that it wouldn't be the same (am Dutch).

I have to admit that the lack of salt might actually make it healthier though.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#49

Post by asutekku » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

distantaidenn wrote: post #33

dcolkitt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From conversations I've had with East Asians, I think many think of cheese in general as a pretty gross food.

Interesting. In my experience, living in Japan and Korea, cheese is everywhere -- sometimes in dishes you wouldn't even expect. I wonder if age is a factor in your observations.

Japanese ”cheese” is not really cheese. You easily can’t find a cheese that would not be a single slice packaged in a plastic. The ”actual cheese” like sold in europe is harder and comes in actual blocks.

Re: Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi

#50

Post by eloisius » Thu, Jul 01, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #14

euske wrote: post #7

I think that almost every culture has this kind of food that is supposed to be super good to those who acquired taste but looks totally gross to outsiders. Japan has this half-rotten sushi and fermented soybeans, and then there's maggot cheese and notorious fermented herrings, etc.

From conversations I've had with East Asians, I think many think of cheese in general as a pretty gross food.

Funny, I was just talking about dairy in Asia in the thread about alcohol flush. At least in Taiwan, cheese is super popular. Wine and cheese charcuterie, cheese on dan bing, cheese tea even (albeit creme cheese). It's probably a generational thing though. Many young people here study abroad and are very international in their tastes.