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Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

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Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#41

Post by timtadh »

macavity23 wrote: post #7

I don't like C++ as a language AT ALL, but the fact is, for cross-platform native app development, it's the only game in town unless you want to write C. Do you want your app (or some part of your app) to run on Windows/OSX/iOS/Android/Linux? Then you're writing it in C++. It sucks, in many ways, but it's what we have.

Actually, using Python or similar is pretty attractive option for Gui development. I know it isn't hip to use WxWindows or Qt4, but if you want a gui that works on all three major platforms Python + Qt4/Wx is a pretty good way to go. Salt this opinion with all the usual trade offs of using Python and the trade offs of not using a "native" toolkit.

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#42

Post by loup-vaillant »

Strom wrote: post #8
maeon3 wrote: post #5

I don't use C/C++ for the same reason I don't use assembly. There are superior languages out there that do a better job with everything important for building complicated software that is robust, easy to use, easy to maintain, fast and scalable. C++ is on its way out, it is still relevant and will be relevant for decades though. As is Cobol.

There are superior languages out there that do a better job Your statement is false, because the choice of language depends on the job. For example, when I need to make something simple quickly I will do it in C#. However when I need to write an add-on to an existing application that doesn't have an official plugin system, then C++ and Assembly are really awesome.

It seems you missed his qualifier: "for building complicated software that is robust, easy to use, easy to maintain, fast and scalable"

Complicated + robust + easy to maintain is plain impossible in C++. Also, add-ons fit "enhance software" better than "building software".

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#43

Post by loup-vaillant »

stonemetal wrote: post #12
maeon3 wrote: post #5

I don't use C/C++ for the same reason I don't use assembly. There are superior languages out there that do a better job with everything important for building complicated software that is robust, easy to use, easy to maintain, fast and scalable. C++ is on its way out, it is still relevant and will be relevant for decades though. As is Cobol.

What do you consider those languages to be?

My personal guess would be "anything higher-level than Java, plus C". From there, fights over Haskell vs Lisp vs Python vs Lua probably hit a point of diminishing returns (but it's still worth it to talk about it).

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#44

Post by zokier »

Impossible wrote: post #31
aklein wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D feels to me the closest thing to a fixed C++. But without major additional momentum, I don't see how it can ever catch up to C++ in adoption.

D is pretty nice. It has implemented almost everything people suggest when they mention how to fix C++, but it has some major problems as well. It'd have to be supported by a lot of different vendors on different platforms and architectures, and the standard library would has to be straightened out. What I was proposing is a C++ compiler that could enforce a specific subset of standard C++, along with making things t…

There are few industry standards for C++ that define a more reasonable C++. See JSF C++ Coding standards and MISRA C++. gcc has something like -Werror -Weffc++, which also helps programmers to follow some "best practices".

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#46

Post by jpr »

gte910h wrote: post #18

Have you tried to staff a C++ project? If you don't have the ability to easily fire people, it's a horrible pain. There are tons of people who think they know C++. There are a smaller subset that do. If you get people who A> Refuse to follow the subset of the language your group is using on the project or B> deeply misunderstand one or two features, you're in total utter hell if you can't fire the person. Most places…

The "C++ is only usable in a subset" meme must die.

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#47

Post by gte910h »

jpr wrote: post #46
gte910h wrote: post #18

Have you tried to staff a C++ project? If you don't have the ability to easily fire people, it's a horrible pain. There are tons of people who think they know C++. There are a smaller subset that do. If you get people who A> Refuse to follow the subset of the language your group is using on the project or B> deeply misunderstand one or two features, you're in total utter hell if you can't fire the person. Most places…

The "C++ is only usable in a subset" meme must die.

If you have to keep engineers around who can handle it, it is.

Writing boost heavy code vs STL code vs object oriented code vs prototype based code vs highly functionally styled code vs custom allocated code vs reference passed code vs smart pointer code, interface based code vs heavily multiple inheritance based code vs flat hierarchy mixin template based polymorphism etc.

It gets expensive to keep people who do all of that around with the level of correctness you need to not have weird bugs that take forever to find. It usually means "You have few domain experts" on the team as well (for if the project is say, for financial software, or RF controllers, or modems, etc).

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#48

Post by MrKurtHaeusler »

gte910h wrote: post #47
jpr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "C++ is only usable in a subset" meme must die.

If you have to keep engineers around who can handle it, it is. Writing boost heavy code vs STL code vs object oriented code vs prototype based code vs highly functionally styled code vs custom allocated code vs reference passed code vs smart pointer code, interface based code vs heavily multiple inheritance based code vs flat hierarchy mixin template based polymorphism etc. It gets expensive to keep people who do all…

You mostly need engineers who think converting between 15 different types of strings is a useful use of developer time.

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#49

Post by jpr »

meow wrote: post #25

I hope some kind of Open VM comes in future so that languages can evolve independent of libraries. It will be awesome to run C# and Java on the same VM.

Why on earth would anyone want to use Java the language on anything else than JVM and get rid of the one and only alleged advantage that Java has?

Re: Hacker Poll: Is C++ the Language of the Future?

#50

Post by blub »

Nelson69 wrote: post #26

Have you ever debugged a class that used free instead of delete? I can't help but think that people that suggest this stuff simply look at lists of features and see "lambda" and think C++ has somehow been modernized. Still fundamentally, it's producing machine code and fundamentally it has a fairly limited runtime and compared to what a LISP coder thinks of when he thinks of closures you might not want to call what C…

I don't think there are many people that have debugged a class that used free instead of delete as there is simply no reason to write the word "free" in a C++ code base.

Even if this somehow happened, allocators include protection at least in debug mode that will let you know when you're doing something obviously wrong.

Writing int won't break your program, I don't see why it would, unless you're making assumptions about range - which you shouldn't. If you need an integer of a certain length there is stdint.h

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