Burnout Is Real • Hacker News Board

Re: Burnout Is Real

#41

Post by ricardo81 » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #33

ricardo81 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a programmer. Stepping away from the desk is often the best thing for me, not for long mind, just to smoke. Astounded by the number of times I have a programming problem and the solution just 'clicks' while I'm away from the screen. FWIW I'm not endorsing smoking, but removing yourself from the screen has benefits IMO. I don't have too many hobbies myself, and TBH love programming and staying on the steep learni…

> The only time I've felt burnout is part of a 50/50 company where the other guy wasn't pulling his weight I have had that many times and I have been that guy. There is just something that needs to work; if someone is doing something and the other is not, that's another problem. It's probably not even what you think but you need to get out as fast as you can as that will end badly.

Indeed, the warning signs were there for me. Sometimes you need to ignore the sunk cost and move on. Sometimes financial requirements get in the way, but generally it can end ugly when you cannot see eye to eye.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#42

Post by iamben » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

carlosrg wrote: post #28

matthewh806 wrote: post #7

This seems like a load of bullshit to me. Some LinkedIn Lunatic level crap He starts off by telling us he's burnt out and then jumps immediately to discussing how he turned a hobby into a full time job... Sounds like a cycle. "Its not an ego trip" but I will spend 17 tweets talking about myself

You might need some time off yourself, seeing how an inoffensive Twitter thread made you so mad.

Agreed, I don't think the snark is needed. Particularly on HN. Everyone is different, everyone expresses themselves in different ways. I just figured he was sick of the tech 'industry'. On the occasions I've burned out I've still tinkered with stuff, I just couldn't face the work I was meant to be doing anymore.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#43

Post by chapium » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

dudus wrote: post #8

I never doubted it was real. But I never really understood what it meant until I was deeply depressed and couldn't get up from bed to go to work anymore. Ended up leaving my job at a FANG and taking a year long sabbatical before rejoining the workforce in a lower/less stressful position for a company not on tech. Sometimes it's still depressing to think o took such a hit in my career. Bit when I remember what I felt…

I went through something similar a few years ago as well. I was able to get out of bed, but I could not focus on a single task for more than a few minutes. I'd frequently get neck pain and migraines late in the week as well. Management was unsympathetic, all they saw was productivity go down. Ultimately I quit and a few months later found myself in a similar job, but actually enjoying what I was doing under a different team/company. Burnout sucks.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#44

Post by matthewh806 » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

carlosrg wrote: post #28

matthewh806 wrote: post #7

This seems like a load of bullshit to me. Some LinkedIn Lunatic level crap He starts off by telling us he's burnt out and then jumps immediately to discussing how he turned a hobby into a full time job... Sounds like a cycle. "Its not an ego trip" but I will spend 17 tweets talking about myself

You might need some time off yourself, seeing how an inoffensive Twitter thread made you so mad.

It doesn't make me mad in the slightest, I just think the guy sounds like an idiot and I find it funny to point this out.

Feel free to do the same to me if you wish.

Edit: On a more serious point i think its actually potentially damaging. Burnout should be recognised as a real problem in industries such as tech. And I don't believe the way to cure burnout is to immediately start jumping into things like:

"About 2 weeks ago I decided to make this a business. I formed an LLC, got an EIN, got Insurance, and built a website.

I started running google ads and I’ve had some good success in the short two weeks I’ve been doing this on weekends."

"So far I have sunk every penny I’ve made back into the business. I have bought a bunch of equipment."

"I’ll be taking on some short term gigs. If you want a decently competent React/C# developer to go through your backlog and fix some old bugs that no one else wants to tackle, well that’s my favorite type of work.

You can hire me for an hour, two hours, 60 hours, etc."

Of course this is just my opinion but i believe he should take some time to really have downtime and reflect, rather than immediately sinking all of his time / energy into a new venture... which once the honeymoon phase ends, hello burnout

Re: Burnout Is Real

#45

Post by zelos » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #9

Personally, I find the biggest reason for burnout is lack of autonomy. The author seems to have found the same.

For me it was the constant feeling that tasks and responsibilities and difficult decisions are piling up faster than I could process them.

Not just "I have too much work to do", but "I have too much work to do and every day it gets worse, and in the morning meeting my team will tell me they all have too much work to do too, and lots of the problems are due to bad tech decisions I took in a hurry a while ago due to inexperience and lack of time, and... and...".

Fortunately I had an understanding manager who spotted me shaking in the lift into the office one afternoon and helped sort things out.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#46

Post by zwkrt » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

phone8675309 wrote: post #35

Must be nice to be financially comfortable enough to give that up. I’m glad that they’re addressing the issue, but how many people are stuck with the mortgage and the student debt and the family that needs almost every penny of their income to make ends meet for every person that has the resources to do drop out of the tech industry in less than half a year?

Those things you mention aren’t really the chains you make them out to be. You can sell your house and move somewhere affordable. Poor people have kids all the time, a lot of times they are even smart! What you feel chained to is your ritzy lifestyle. Your wife and kids won’t resent you for not providing all that fancy shit, but they will resent you for working yourself until there’s nothing left for them.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#47

Post by corpMaverick » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #29

analyst74 wrote: post #9

Personally, I find the biggest reason for burnout is lack of autonomy. The author seems to have found the same.

I'd say burnout happens when you have had too many negative experiences related to work compared to how many positive ones you got and your emotions tells you that it isn't something you should continue doing since it is bad for you. A negative experience could be that you worked long hours and no longer could do things you love, or people screaming at you causing stress etc, humans are really good at being creative…

Yes and lack of Autonomy causes you to have many negative experiences.

Particularly in software engineering you need to constantly make many decisions. But if you don't have autonomy you are constantly having to second guess your self. Not based on what you think is best but based on what you think the other person(s) above you will think. It is way of working that drains your energy.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#48

Post by tluyben2 » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #31

itsbits wrote: post #2

I wish I had any other interest apart from programming...

In my bubble it seems every other programmer wants to quit to take up wood working or craft brewing. Third by some distance is people growing stuff, especially chili peppers.

Yeah, a lot of programmers I know as well want to do those things (which make no money) I guess because they are far easier to reason about. Brewing craft beer starts out as a shit show once you did a few batches, it is consistent, predictable etc. Unlike programming. You can screw up a lot and still get nice beer. Until you look at making money of course; that is where the craft brew and wood working shitshows are at. That's basically completely unpredictable unless you are established and have your regulars etc. I prefer pizza baking; I perfected this during covid and now can make and bake consistent good pizzas at high speed (in a 480C wood oven) and sell them consistently too. Somehow it makes me happy having that feeling of being able to sell them.

Re: Burnout Is Real

#49

Post by skeeter2020 » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

carlivar wrote: post #15

nickthemagicman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end he advertises for work as a freelance developer. That was like an M. Night Shyamalan twist for me.

I thought that at first too, but he says he likes picking old tickets off the backlog. There's usually no product pressure or deadlines with that sort of work. Which is actually the source of burnout perhaps?

>> he says he likes picking old tickets off the backlog.

OT but man I hate people who "select" tickets off the backlog. You better have a good reason for not taking the one right at the top...

Re: Burnout Is Real

#50

Post by fullshark » Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

slumdev wrote: post #19

Burnout is real, but it's not unavoidable. If you can't imagine yourself doing your job for the next 40 years*, then find another one. *If you're a gunner and plan on running the place by then, that's different. Likewise, if you expect to add responsibilities and enjoy some variety, that's also different. But the basic responsibilities and activities shouldn't be abhorrent or even unfulfilling to you.

I've tried multiple careers in my early years due to this, and have decided it just is the nature of the world that works sucks and always will. You are selling your time for a paycheck, that's all it is and all it ever will be. Ultimately I think burnout stems from a terrible attitude re: work as salvation or meaning, and realizing no it's not and that is crushing.