Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#41

Post by dzdt » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:45 PM UTC

larrymyers wrote: post #25

zozbot234 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while also chronically underfunding schools Schools are not underfunded in the U.S., they waste money. Big difference.

For what we expect of schools they are underfunded. Schools provide before and after care outside of normal hours, they provide all 3 meals to many students. Counseling, social services, health care ... it's not just teachers in the classroom. Now, if the US wanted to actually fix poverty and inequality dealing with the symptoms wouldn't roll down to the schools to deal with.

Exactly. The biggest problem with US schools is poverty. It isn't anything directly to do with the school system, but the school system is tasked with "leaving no child behind" when the thing holding many children back is poverty of their families.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#42

Post by John23832 » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:45 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #36

John23832 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not. Reading comprehension is key.

> You then get a "working class" with no real skills/education/ambition... they do not "do", which leads back to my first comment This you?

> a "working class"

^ This references a segment or variation of the "working class". In my inference, a portion of the working class that isn't actually working, because they do not "do".

> the "working class"

^ This is what you're trying to run with. This references the working class as a whole entity. I did not say this.

Again, reading comprehension is key.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#43

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:46 PM UTC

doytch wrote: post #26

whb07 wrote: post #15

Controlling education is a political life source for the Democratic party in the U.S. One of the largest, if not the largest, unions is the teacher's and they are a major donor to the Democratic party. Thankfully, the one good thing about the shutdowns has been the ability for parents to observe a couple things: * how little the school system cares about the child * the indoctrination and political ideas being passed…

I'm not American, but the core flaw that I've never had explained away for me in voucher or "school choice" systems is how "bad" schools get better. E.g., school in my district is bad. They don't have enough resources, or their teachers are bad. People begin taking their kids out of the school which means the school now has less money. Assuming they could fire teachers at will, they can't even now afford the "better"…

The failing schools will also get fewer students going for them. Money per student will be the same as it always was, and quite often with a better student/teacher ratio as well.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#44

Post by shawnz » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:46 PM UTC

John23832 wrote: post #32

wayoutthere wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy hell dude, are you calling the working class lazy and the professional class hard-working?! This tells me you don’t have a lot of contact with the working class. The working class busts their asses while most software devs I know work about 2 hours a day from their couch in pajamas. Someone who works at a warehouse or fast food joint is a much harder worker than a software architect. Probably also working 60-80…

I did not. Reading comprehension is key.

I agree with their interpretation. "Be more ambitious" isn't a solution to poverty. There are plenty of ambitious people to compete with at every income level.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#45

Post by rayiner » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:46 PM UTC

kungito wrote: post #31

John23832 wrote: post #7

Two parts: First, I think the ability to DO THINGS is the great equalizer at this point. Being a do-er lifts you out of poverty (or at least out of poverty's worst resting state). Being a do-er expands your network. Being a do-er prolongs your life (people with jobs/daily activities tend to live longer healthier lives). The best part about this is that technology has made it easier to become a do-er. You don't need a…

I feel like the US has to split into separate countries and maybe adopt a system like EU. Everything in the us gets so generalized no one has any agency over it except companies with enough money to push a narrative across 300 mil people. Either that or the way you think about US has to change. I find it hard to believe every state does things the same way but still you say "US" has a problem and not Georgia or Calif…

We already are, and Democrats keep trying to nationalize everything.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#46

Post by ipaddr » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:47 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #35

larrymyers wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what we expect of schools they are underfunded. Schools provide before and after care outside of normal hours, they provide all 3 meals to many students. Counseling, social services, health care ... it's not just teachers in the classroom. Now, if the US wanted to actually fix poverty and inequality dealing with the symptoms wouldn't roll down to the schools to deal with.

We do all of that in Canada, for 3K per student less AND get much better results (at least on average).

Why do you think Canada gets a better results?

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#47

Post by connectsnk » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:48 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #35

larrymyers wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what we expect of schools they are underfunded. Schools provide before and after care outside of normal hours, they provide all 3 meals to many students. Counseling, social services, health care ... it's not just teachers in the classroom. Now, if the US wanted to actually fix poverty and inequality dealing with the symptoms wouldn't roll down to the schools to deal with.

We do all of that in Canada, for 3K per student less AND get much better results (at least on average).

Probably can be attributed to huge asian and south asian immigrant population who put a very big emphasis on education in their families

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#48

Post by viscanti » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

kungito wrote: post #31

John23832 wrote: post #7

Two parts: First, I think the ability to DO THINGS is the great equalizer at this point. Being a do-er lifts you out of poverty (or at least out of poverty's worst resting state). Being a do-er expands your network. Being a do-er prolongs your life (people with jobs/daily activities tend to live longer healthier lives). The best part about this is that technology has made it easier to become a do-er. You don't need a…

I feel like the US has to split into separate countries and maybe adopt a system like EU. Everything in the us gets so generalized no one has any agency over it except companies with enough money to push a narrative across 300 mil people. Either that or the way you think about US has to change. I find it hard to believe every state does things the same way but still you say "US" has a problem and not Georgia or Calif…

The US could create an amendment to say something like "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people". Which would give individual States the right to control a lot of things. Is that kind of what you're thinking?

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#49

Post by EliRivers » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

John23832 wrote: post #42

wayoutthere wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You then get a "working class" with no real skills/education/ambition... they do not "do", which leads back to my first comment This you?

> a "working class" ^ This references a segment or variation of the "working class". In my inference, a portion of the working class that isn't actually working, because they do not "do". > the "working class" ^ This is what you're trying to run with. This references the working class as a whole entity. I did not say this. Again, reading comprehension is key.

Again, reading comprehension is key.

If there's a repeating pattern of people not understanding what you're writing, why not write more clearly? It will make everything better.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#50

Post by wayoutthere » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

John23832 wrote: post #42

wayoutthere wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You then get a "working class" with no real skills/education/ambition... they do not "do", which leads back to my first comment This you?

> a "working class" ^ This references a segment or variation of the "working class". In my inference, a portion of the working class that isn't actually working, because they do not "do". > the "working class" ^ This is what you're trying to run with. This references the working class as a whole entity. I did not say this. Again, reading comprehension is key.

So are writing skills.