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Apology

felleisen.org

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Re: Apology

#41

Post by piercebot »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #28
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #3

Context: Why I no longer contribute to Racket . https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27531508

I really think people need to learn to push back, and talk plainly. This could have easily been a blog called "that time Felleisen was being a cunt and I told him to go fuck himself" and been 1/4 the length.

I'm not sure I would classify that as "talking plainly." Words like that would put anybody on the defensive, and being on the defensive does not make people receptive to positive change.

Re: Apology

#42

Post by CharlesW »

aaomidi wrote: post #33

Starting with an excuse for the behavior is not a good way to do an apology.

Except that he does not start with that — he starts with an unequivocal apology. As someone with no skin in the game and who doesn't know these people, it sounds like he's trying to explain why he didn't realize sooner that he was such a raging asshole to Matthew. (I understand that Mattias apparently has a history of this kind of behavior that this apology does not address.)

Re: Apology

#43

Post by qbasic_forever »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #28
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #3

Context: Why I no longer contribute to Racket . https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27531508

I really think people need to learn to push back, and talk plainly. This could have easily been a blog called "that time Felleisen was being a cunt and I told him to go fuck himself" and been 1/4 the length.

There are very real cultural differences and taboos against questioning and pushing back against authority. What one culture may view as normal and expected process in improvement, another is horrified and ashamed to consider. Do not assume just because you've grown up or grown accustomed to it that it's 'normal' or practiced everywhere. This is perhaps one of the biggest frictions I see in teams that are full of folks from different cultures and backgrounds.

Re: Apology

#45

Post by striking »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #28
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #3

Context: Why I no longer contribute to Racket . https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27531508

I really think people need to learn to push back, and talk plainly. This could have easily been a blog called "that time Felleisen was being a cunt and I told him to go fuck himself" and been 1/4 the length.

From the fine reply's fine link:

> Of course, I did push back on Felleisen. But there was a limit to how hard I could push. Again—I was merely a guest. In the moment, I was strug­gling mostly to keep my emotions in check. I did assure him that his fears about my future perfor­mance were unfounded.

Re: Apology

#46

Post by zozbot234 »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #28
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #3

Context: Why I no longer contribute to Racket . https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27531508

I really think people need to learn to push back, and talk plainly. This could have easily been a blog called "that time Felleisen was being a cunt and I told him to go fuck himself" and been 1/4 the length.

Matthew was an invited guest speaker, he could not push back to such an extent without putting those arrangements at risk. This of course made it more important for Fellesein to moderate his behavior in that context; he should have been aware that this meant a potential source of feedback was missing.

Re: Apology

#47

Post by mvid »

chronogram wrote: post #44
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #3

Context: Why I no longer contribute to Racket . https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27531508

So both just needed to talk to each other? No idea why they have to go through HN proxies.

Matthew made it pretty clear he had talked to a number of people, and waited months before going public

Re: Apology

#48

Post by qez »

aaomidi wrote: post #33

Starting with an excuse for the behavior is not a good way to do an apology.

I think you read the blog post in the wrong order. The apology is on line 3.

Re: Apology

#49

Post by superdug »

jtbayly wrote: post #17

Summary of several HN replies: “Yeah, yeah, whatever. Saying you’re sorry doesn’t cut it. You need to pay for it before we will accept your apology.” Hence, cancel culture. Edit: There’s no need to therefor assume the dude is totally changed based on one apology, but good grief people. The lesson I’m learning here is, “Never apologize. It will do no good and will simply drag the situation out longer.”

Not to be overly snarky, but the lesson you should have learned is to just not be an asshole in the first place.

Re: Apology

#50

Post by howolduis »

sokoloff wrote: post #15
howolduis wrote: post #8

apology? nothing of what I read sounds like an apology. You basically said that your friends told you that what you did looked bad, and based on that, you feel sorry that he "felt" hurt. Then go on saying how good and gracious you were to him? c'mon... edit: typo

Did we read the same article? After reading your comment and then clicking through to the article, I expected to see a half-ass “I’m sorry that you over-reacted” or something. Instead, I saw was seems like a clear and genuine apology that takes responsibility for their actions and overtly admits that they were wrong rather than equivocating.

did you read the original blog post?
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