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Goodbye Freenode

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Re: Goodbye Freenode

#41

Post by cdubzzz »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #3

I think it's important to continuously warn people about the freenode takeover, lest communities end up split. (see also: https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php current statistics)

I have been watching that graph since this whole thing flared up and, if nothing else, find it hilarious when paired with the "freenode exists for FOSS" blog post[0] with this leading statement:

> The current global user count of freenode exceeds the user count of the 2nd-6th largest networks, combined. I am pleased to announce, the plan to destroy freenode has failed!

[0] https://freenode.net/news/for-foss

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#42

Post by abstractbeliefs »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #36
dTal wrote: post #15

While I agree that Libera is New Freenode and Old Freenode is rapidly dying a death, this whole episode has soured me mightily against Freenode as a whole. This should never have happened in the first place and the blame for it lies squarely at the OldFreenode/Libera admin's feet, not whichever outside actor took advantage of it. The admins are an "old boys network" - not chosen by the community, or elected, but simp…

Agree. It would have been great if the old staff and servers would have merged with OFTC, but it seems this wasn't even considered at any point. Nothing seems to have changed in that relation. But oh well, just another network to connect to until everything has maybe moved off freenode.

It would probably be risky to drag the only other foss-focussed network into the legal battle.

Andrew Lee has shown that he is litigious, so why expose another organisation to that risk?

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#43

Post by stavros »

CyberShadow wrote: post #40
StavrosK wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What good would that do, if the users aren't connecting to the network?

> What good would that do, It would save both staff and users a lot of time from having to re-register accounts, channels, and projects/communities. > if the users aren't connecting to the network? I don't understand this part, sorry.

If your users are on Freenode and don't know about your network, having the structure there doesn't do much good. It doesn't take much time to register nicknames/channels anyway, certainly not enough to risk a lawsuit from Freenode.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#44

Post by iforgotpassword »

abstractbeliefs wrote: post #42
iforgotpassword wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. It would have been great if the old staff and servers would have merged with OFTC, but it seems this wasn't even considered at any point. Nothing seems to have changed in that relation. But oh well, just another network to connect to until everything has maybe moved off freenode.

It would probably be risky to drag the only other foss-focussed network into the legal battle. Andrew Lee has shown that he is litigious, so why expose another organisation to that risk?

Fair enough.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#45

Post by caf »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #36
dTal wrote: post #15

While I agree that Libera is New Freenode and Old Freenode is rapidly dying a death, this whole episode has soured me mightily against Freenode as a whole. This should never have happened in the first place and the blame for it lies squarely at the OldFreenode/Libera admin's feet, not whichever outside actor took advantage of it. The admins are an "old boys network" - not chosen by the community, or elected, but simp…

Agree. It would have been great if the old staff and servers would have merged with OFTC, but it seems this wasn't even considered at any point. Nothing seems to have changed in that relation. But oh well, just another network to connect to until everything has maybe moved off freenode.

Merging two networks is problematic. The same nicks and channels are owned by different people on either side; in this case the server software is distinct as well with different features supported.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#46

Post by kuschku »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #3

I think it's important to continuously warn people about the freenode takeover, lest communities end up split. (see also: https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php current statistics)

That’s why I implemented this warning in my client: https://twitter.com/quasseldroid/status/1397824682259329024

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#47

Post by spinax »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #28

„I was constantly messaging people telling them to use a competitor and I was banned.“ the entitlement of these people blow my mind.

I know, right? The sheer audacity of Freenode to believe they own the communities of FSF, Arch, Gentoo, GNU, Python and countless other FOSS projects is unfathomable. I just can't believe how entitled Freenode believes itself to be, banning project leaders and performing hostile takeovers of established communities being run by their official projects. It really does blow my mind.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#48

Post by neilv »

progval wrote: post #29
neilv wrote: post #23

Many IRC networks have had drama. But does anyone know the motivation for recent actions by Freenode? I'm discounting conspiracy theories (e.g., flipping, sabotage) because I think anyone acting strategically wrt IRC knows that forking an IRC network has been part of the standard toolkit for responding to "damage", since almost the start. I'm starting to lean towards a theory of there being no longer being a business…

There is some speculation about the motivations here: https://ariadne.space/2021/05/20/the-whole-freenode-kerfluff...

I don't know these particular people, but, absolutely, many people grew up with IRC and similar earlier online social forums as a refuge from trauma, or to find community or acceptance.

(That started in the age of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_... , before more conventional social dynamics took over the 'Net.)

If that theory is correct, I'd guess there's a good path to something that everyone feels better about. But it might involve Freenode being turned over to a nonprofit. I think many traditional users wouldn't go back, but the right nonprofit might find a way to pivot to new service to the world. In the credible nonprofit scenario, the value of the Freenode brand now might be of the flavor: we made mistakes, learned dearly, came out much stronger.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#49

Post by diogenesjunior »

hluska wrote: post #39
marcan_42 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not just transphobia-friendly; one of their new ops got opped right after uttering a transphobic slur in a very transphobic sentence. Their own staff are openly transphobes.

If any trans people read this, I’m sorry some people are like that but I love the hell out of you.

Wow, what a king.
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