A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin • Hacker News Board

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#41

Post by the-pigeon » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

Baeocystin wrote: post #38

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #18

Friendly reminder that people who deal with "unsafe by office worker standards" stuff day in and day out do not shovel money at you without critical thought just because you can portray your product as improving safety. These guys aren't wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the thought of a dangerous job. They're finding a way to be careful and mitigate the risks of the worst outcomes and then getting…

Speaking as someone who knows farmers- they do, in fact, consider going into the silo a dangerous task, because everyone knows some family that had someone die because of it. They do it anyway, because it needs to get done, but they are quite aware of the risk. Everything on a farm has to earn its keep in terms of ROI, and so will this robot. It may or may not be cost effective, and we'll see. But please don't downpl…

The entire idea that "x workers don't care about safety" is just dumb.

Yes some individuals care less than they should. But every job has some people who are smart enough to value their own safety. And those people will seriously consider any device the significantly increases safety.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#42

Post by fiftyfifty » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #18

Friendly reminder that people who deal with "unsafe by office worker standards" stuff day in and day out do not shovel money at you without critical thought just because you can portray your product as improving safety. These guys aren't wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the thought of a dangerous job. They're finding a way to be careful and mitigate the risks of the worst outcomes and then getting…

I've been involved in several IT projects and companies in the agricultural industry over the years. Most people that try to solve agricultural problems with tech are surprised to find that there is far less money in agriculture than they expected and farmers are far less willing to part with it on unproven tech.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#43

Post by splistud » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

djmips wrote: post #23

If grain bins are dangerous to go inside, maybe there's a low tech solution like safety lines attached to a belt similar to mountain climbing or high rise construction.

Yes, using a harness is standard (recommended) practice, along with someone to pull the other end

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#44

Post by Symbiote » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

Baeocystin wrote: post #38

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #18

Friendly reminder that people who deal with "unsafe by office worker standards" stuff day in and day out do not shovel money at you without critical thought just because you can portray your product as improving safety. These guys aren't wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the thought of a dangerous job. They're finding a way to be careful and mitigate the risks of the worst outcomes and then getting…

Speaking as someone who knows farmers- they do, in fact, consider going into the silo a dangerous task, because everyone knows some family that had someone die because of it. They do it anyway, because it needs to get done, but they are quite aware of the risk. Everything on a farm has to earn its keep in terms of ROI, and so will this robot. It may or may not be cost effective, and we'll see. But please don't downpl…

The alternatives suggested on [1] (from a different comment) are much cheaper: long poles, a safety harness, lock tag.

If farmers aren't already using those, why would they buy this?

[1] https://agfax.com/2019/02/18/grain-bins-sudden-death-4-ways-...

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#45

Post by tim333 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #36

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert on grain but in general vibration will aerosolize particles (preferentially the smallest ones) and it's amazing what will burn when you aerosolize it as a fine powder.

Powdered coffee creamer makes impressive fireballs with the distinctive mushroom cloud shape.

Ah so it does - video: https://youtu.be/9pP7mTgX7iw?t=35

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#46

Post by gcheong » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

djmips wrote: post #23

If grain bins are dangerous to go inside, maybe there's a low tech solution like safety lines attached to a belt similar to mountain climbing or high rise construction.

Then you have to gear up, which takes time, and maybe you only have to go in for a little bit to clear something, and also now you are tethered which may hinder your mobility and could in itself become a hazard. I recall something I read about people who work in high places like antenna towers would often rather do away with the harness if safety regulations allowed as they find it tedious to be unhooking and rehooking every few steps up the ladder.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#47

Post by nico_h » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

Here is a negative two cents idea: Attach a dumb auger drive "robot" to the end of tether adjustable from the top, with an umbilical to solar panels, maybe a lidar or sonar to see the shape of the field, make it go in spiral back and forth Roomba style. Eventually you'll have run all over the grain multiple times. No need for fancy deep learning AI.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#48

Post by nico_h » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

nico_h wrote: post #47

Here is a negative two cents idea: Attach a dumb auger drive "robot" to the end of tether adjustable from the top, with an umbilical to solar panels, maybe a lidar or sonar to see the shape of the field, make it go in spiral back and forth Roomba style. Eventually you'll have run all over the grain multiple times. No need for fancy deep learning AI.

If you don't have to make it as fast as possible in a pay per time used way, maybe the dumb solution can be cost effective.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#49

Post by TaylorAlexander » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

bewareandaware wrote: post #15

This seems like another high tech solution looking for a problem. I'm not heavy agriculture savy but it seems to me the same could be solved by having 2 or 3 archimedes screws on the bin which could keep grain moving over time and preventing it from forming the clods. The bot could also be radio controlled and it would still remove the need of a human going in. Another pet peeve of mine is the robot-as-a-service part…

I agree robot as a service is annoying. It is a good fit though for robotics because your first version is likely to cost too much and break too soon. Selling that would make for unhappy customers. However investors like the high profit potential and that can lead to dark patterns.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#50

Post by nimbius » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

Baeocystin wrote: post #38

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #18

Friendly reminder that people who deal with "unsafe by office worker standards" stuff day in and day out do not shovel money at you without critical thought just because you can portray your product as improving safety. These guys aren't wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the thought of a dangerous job. They're finding a way to be careful and mitigate the risks of the worst outcomes and then getting…

Speaking as someone who knows farmers- they do, in fact, consider going into the silo a dangerous task, because everyone knows some family that had someone die because of it. They do it anyway, because it needs to get done, but they are quite aware of the risk. Everything on a farm has to earn its keep in terms of ROI, and so will this robot. It may or may not be cost effective, and we'll see. But please don't downpl…

"Blue-collar" worker here. safety is the first trade we learn in school and the first job we start at every site. Your real uphill battle with this thing isnt going to be safety, its repair. Can I fix it with a stick welder and parts from a Tractor Supply? If not, its just another John Deere money machine.

If you REALLY want farmers to use it, make it OPEN SOURCE.