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RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

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Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#41

Post by ethank »

I hate this headline. This is not RIAA accounting: its having a bad lawyer and not negotiating a good deal. I've been in plenty of deal meetings and seen the good and the bad.

The good artists retain most of their rights, negotiate a buy out of master recording rights, retain all fanclub/merch rights, etc.

The labels try to gun for 360 rights, but the fact is while there was a brief moment when they could deliver on the promise of the 360, that moment has long passed.

If you are a band, and you want to be a multi-platinum act selling world wide: get a really really good lawyer and sign with QPrime, Frontline, Red Light/ATO, etc.

Let me repeat: GET A GOOD LAWYER.

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#42

Post by chadgeidel »

mikeash wrote: post #34
StavrosK wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so, given how much money top singers/bands make?

The total revenue of RIAA members in 2009 was about $7.7 billion. At their peak around the turn of the century, they were doing a bit under $15 billion. And that is revenue, not profit. The entertainment industry is tiny . Top artists make a lot of money for an individual, but it's only millions, and there aren't a whole lot of them. That 2009 music industry revenue would pay for, what, 70,000 programmers? And there…

The mind-boggling this is that a billion-dollar industry is bullying a (many?) trillion-dollar industry around. Say what you want about DRM, it's strange to me that software and hardware manufacturers actually put up with it.

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#43

Post by klbarry »

brown9-2 wrote: post #35
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting - non-RIAA bands actually lose money touring. Smaller bands signed to RIAA labels still do not do very well with touring. In many smaller scenes, a successful tour is one that breaks even. They sleep on promoters floors, eat shitty food, and play in bars. I hear a lot of "fans" that download all of their music and think that they support the artist by going to their show. This is not the case. The one wa…

I hear a lot of "fans" that download all of their music and think that they support the artist by going to their show. This is not the case. Well, it's not like their ticket purchases are for naught - it still offsets the cost of touring for the artist. The artists would be worse off doing the same tour with less fans attending. What better choice do the fans have anyway? Buying the records supports the record label,…

And the record label supports the artist, or else why would artist's join them?

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#44

Post by kragen »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #32
gallerytungsten wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general outlook I hear from people who are signed to deals that pay advances is this: get as large an advance as you can, because you won't be getting anything else. Sure, if you go double platinum it might be worthwhile to audit the label and squeeze some more money out. Although recoupment provisions make it technically a loan, just like a VC, the label won't come after you forever if you don't recoup. At a cer…

Worth noting - non-RIAA bands actually lose money touring. Smaller bands signed to RIAA labels still do not do very well with touring. In many smaller scenes, a successful tour is one that breaks even. They sleep on promoters floors, eat shitty food, and play in bars. I hear a lot of "fans" that download all of their music and think that they support the artist by going to their show. This is not the case. The one wa…

Really? How do you lose money touring if you're sleeping on promoters' floors and eating shitty food? How does the RIAA change the equation?

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#45

Post by kragen »

vermontdevil wrote: post #4

I still don't understand why musicians continue to sign up with record labels? With all the other options out there, the record labels should not be the first choice for any aspiring musician.

I asked my brother. He said, "All the big projects are still on record labels."

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#46

Post by Timothee »

mdasen wrote: post #23

So, the question I have is: how many of those bands/artists make it? The article mentions an advance of $1M. I think the $20 per CD rate claimed in this album (1M CDs sold is claimed to be $20M in sales) is a bit high (then again, I haven't bought a CD in a while). Suffice it to say, I'd lower that to $10-12M gross and maybe $7-8.4M when costs are accounted for. Even with digital distribution, I think the iTMS/Amazon…

"an album costs around $10-12 on iTunes and Apple takes 30% of that"

Are you sure that 30% cut is true for music as well? I know it is for apps and books (the "new" things in iTMS), but I've never really found the take on music and videos. Do you have any source?

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#47

Post by mikeash »

chadgeidel wrote: post #42
mikeash wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total revenue of RIAA members in 2009 was about $7.7 billion. At their peak around the turn of the century, they were doing a bit under $15 billion. And that is revenue, not profit. The entertainment industry is tiny . Top artists make a lot of money for an individual, but it's only millions, and there aren't a whole lot of them. That 2009 music industry revenue would pay for, what, 70,000 programmers? And there…

The mind-boggling this is that a billion-dollar industry is bullying a (many?) trillion-dollar industry around. Say what you want about DRM, it's strange to me that software and hardware manufacturers actually put up with it.

I agree, it's pretty amazing just how far above their weight the entertainment industry punches in that respect.

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#48

Post by InclinedPlane »

mdasen wrote: post #23

So, the question I have is: how many of those bands/artists make it? The article mentions an advance of $1M. I think the $20 per CD rate claimed in this album (1M CDs sold is claimed to be $20M in sales) is a bit high (then again, I haven't bought a CD in a while). Suffice it to say, I'd lower that to $10-12M gross and maybe $7-8.4M when costs are accounted for. Even with digital distribution, I think the iTMS/Amazon…

Plenty of bands manage to overcome this ridiculousness. One of the most common ways is to go on tour. A much larger portion of the ticket and merch sales gets back to the artist compared to album sales. Even at a tiny venue if you get 200 people to show up and you make $10 a head on average that's $2,000 revenue a show, if you do 4 shows a week that's $32k a month, even minus expenses and split N ways that's a decent haul. And if you make more per head from merch or put on bigger shows, that's even better.

The only way artists make a good living off album sales alone with the traditional system is if they are hugely popular, selling millions of records. But obviously only a few bands are in that boat. Also, such bands would still make yet even more by going on tour.

But this system is already past its prime. If you want to make a living off of being a musical artist your best bet is to self-publish online and go on tour, you'll keep a much, much larger portion of the total revenues to yourself and you'll be able to live off of your music even if you only attain a moderate degree of success.

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#49

Post by zaphar »

ethank wrote: post #41

I hate this headline. This is not RIAA accounting: its having a bad lawyer and not negotiating a good deal. I've been in plenty of deal meetings and seen the good and the bad. The good artists retain most of their rights, negotiate a buy out of master recording rights, retain all fanclub/merch rights, etc. The labels try to gun for 360 rights, but the fact is while there was a brief moment when they could deliver on…

If you get a good lawyer and he drives a hard bargain that doesn't mean you get the record label deal though. What's more important is determining how much you are willing to give up for a record label deal. The label is perfectly capable of telling you no deal if they don't want to give you all your demands. There are a lot of other artists out there who will drive an easier bargain.

The lawyer is helpful in actually understanding the deal but he can't guarantee the deal you want.

Re: RIAA Accounting: How To Sell 1 Million Albums And Still Owe $500,000

#50

Post by ethank »

zaphar wrote: post #49
ethank wrote: post #41

I hate this headline. This is not RIAA accounting: its having a bad lawyer and not negotiating a good deal. I've been in plenty of deal meetings and seen the good and the bad. The good artists retain most of their rights, negotiate a buy out of master recording rights, retain all fanclub/merch rights, etc. The labels try to gun for 360 rights, but the fact is while there was a brief moment when they could deliver on…

If you get a good lawyer and he drives a hard bargain that doesn't mean you get the record label deal though. What's more important is determining how much you are willing to give up for a record label deal. The label is perfectly capable of telling you no deal if they don't want to give you all your demands. There are a lot of other artists out there who will drive an easier bargain. The lawyer is helpful in actuall…

Very true. You also need to be willing to walk away and hold the line. I've seen contract negotiations go for YEARS.
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