The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#41

Post by Miner49er » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

I don't think you'll ever be able to fully ban cryptocurrency.

Also, I'm not even sure ransomware is a net bad thing in the first place. It encourages better security and makes companies less likely to store my private information.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#42

Post by CincinnatiMan » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #31

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

""" While we're at it, maybe those same people can defend the Internet, right? Clearly, this experiment in anyone in the world being able to nigh unto anonymously communicate with anyone else was a mistake... at best, every packet should be tracked back to some regulated endpoint that can be tracked in the real world. The Internet, after all, makes the dark web--and its myriad crimes, including ransomware, drug traff…

I think the argument would be that the internet, while enabling bad things, is a net-positive with its good outweighing its bad. Whereas the value provided by cryptocurrencies is not as clear.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#43

Post by Mc_Big_G » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

I'd like to hear how internet advocates address child pornography without deploying a fallacy. The internet makes child pornography possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "CD ROMs facilitate bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve the internet's central role in child porn. As the article states, there is simply no way to attain child porn without the internet. Maybe they could do DVD or CD ROM, but that would be sooooo slow (but not impossible?)

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#44

Post by tinus_hn » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #25

tinus_hn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before cryptocurrency it was iTunes giftcards or money transfer services to a 3rd world country. Cryptocurrency is not the only way to transfer money that’s relatively hard to trace.

As the article points out, it's the only way to reliably transfer the 7 figure sums that make large-scale ransomware attacks workable.

Sorry but before cryptocurrency there also were hostage that were freed on payment of millions. For that kind of money life does find a way.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#45

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #31

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

""" While we're at it, maybe those same people can defend the Internet, right? Clearly, this experiment in anyone in the world being able to nigh unto anonymously communicate with anyone else was a mistake... at best, every packet should be tracked back to some regulated endpoint that can be tracked in the real world. The Internet, after all, makes the dark web--and its myriad crimes, including ransomware, drug traff…

You might say you're "banning Bitcoin", but what you're really doing is banning Bitcoin's linkages to the existing institutional financial system. That's a very tenable project.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#46

Post by wetjen » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #30

mediaman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make it illegal to transact crypto. That would devastate the price and ruin it as a currency. The network would still exist, but it'd be useless as a medium for criminal payments due to the low value.

Low value won't change its criminal utility. A criminal looking for a $50k ransomware payment doesn't care if the market cap is $50M or $50B. Outlawing it will make a difference though since it'll make it less likely that victims will pay, meaning the endeavor has a lower success rate.

Maybe. Let’s say you can, for example, purchase a cruise missile strike in crypto. Once a few cruise missiles land in LA I imagine the world governments will take a more aggressive stance on crypto. Drone strikes and military intervention will follow.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#47

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

J5892 wrote: post #7

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

The answer is that sometimes progress comes with a cost. Whether or not you consider cryptocurrencies "progress" is irrelevant, because it's an emerging technology that exists whether you (or I) like it or not. The cold, hard, unavoidable truth is this: Ransomware may be a Bitcoin problem, and it may not be. Either way, tough shit.

> Whether or not you consider cryptocurrencies "progress" is irrelevant

I mean not really. If we were to decide, as a country, that it was bad, we could take actions to stop its proliferation. The dollar-BTC transition points are chokepoints we could easily target to get started.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#48

Post by lozaning » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #26

smaryjerry wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought you can easily wash the money by converting it through an anonymous cryptocurrency and then out again anyways.

The networks don't interoperate, so you need a "trusted" party to provide this service.

An atomic exchange fulfills this requirement, assuming your capable of auditing the code that runs the swap smart contract.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#49

Post by spoonjim » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

Ransomware is a gift — people are exposing insecure systems only for a few million dollars of payout. A more nefarious actor would do more nefarious things than just collect what is at the nation-state scale a very small amount of money. More ransomware will accelerate security improvements and protect systems from CCP, Five Eyes, etc.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#50

Post by toxik » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #19

toxik wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash enables muggings so we must ban cash?

you say this in jest but in reality plenty of people have stopped using cash by themselves for this exact reason.

People abandoned cash out of convenience, not fear of mugging.