Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

fastcompany.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 178 posts

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#41

Post by nullc »

emc3 wrote: post #2

In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. They will try to decrease WFH compensation initially, like the loss of benefits threat in the article, but the number of potential employers is higher for WFH workers, giving them leverage.

> In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH.

Do you mean pay you more because the office no longer needs to provide space and power for you, but you provide it for yourself? ... and because you can be called 'in' faster without the 45 minute commute?

:P

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#42

Post by qchris »

emc3 wrote: post #2

In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. They will try to decrease WFH compensation initially, like the loss of benefits threat in the article, but the number of potential employers is higher for WFH workers, giving them leverage.

For one, I'd argue that working from home probably requires additional pay over working in the office. I'm sure some people have a "spare" bedroom that they can convert into an office, but there's a lot of people, including almost all the tech-oriented professionals under 30 that I know, that don't even have their own one bedroom apartment, let alone are able to pay for a second bedroom just in case. Working at the kitchen table all day around roommates (or partners, or children if you're a parent, or maybe even disruptive pets) is not exactly a recipe for deep work productivity.

If workers are also now expected to provision their own work space (space, desk, chairs, monitors, etc.), then the compensation model around those jobs also needs to be adjusted to account for that.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#43

Post by walshemj »

wrs wrote: post #36

I'm trying and failing to think of any important part of "company culture" that only works for people in the same room. Culture is made of shared values (codified in actions, not PowerPoints), communication norms, peer reactions, shared history, inside jokes...all of that stuff can work remotely. If your company has more than one office it already has to work remotely.

I think that is not really true remember work is not just "me me me" its a collective endeavor.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#44

Post by throwawayboise »

the-pigeon wrote: post #19
emc3 wrote: post #2

In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. They will try to decrease WFH compensation initially, like the loss of benefits threat in the article, but the number of potential employers is higher for WFH workers, giving them leverage.

> In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. Why? A company hires an employee because they think they can make more profit than that employee costs them. My expenses have nothing to do with the equation except when the company wants to be cheap and figures out they can up their profit margin per employee by lowering salaries due to low competition for employees.

Your expenses also do not determine your value to the company. It's simple supply and demand.

If you require $250/hr but a smart person in say Brasil will do the same work, to the same standards, for $100/hr, what is the rationale for the company to keep paying you? You might complain that the Brasilian is leaving money on the table but that's not in your control.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#45

Post by walshemj »

qchris wrote: post #42
emc3 wrote: post #2

In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. They will try to decrease WFH compensation initially, like the loss of benefits threat in the article, but the number of potential employers is higher for WFH workers, giving them leverage.

For one, I'd argue that working from home probably requires additional pay over working in the office. I'm sure some people have a "spare" bedroom that they can convert into an office, but there's a lot of people, including almost all the tech-oriented professionals under 30 that I know, that don't even have their own one bedroom apartment, let alone are able to pay for a second bedroom just in case. Working at the k…

And a lot of property now needs expanding or is no longer attractive to buyers.

the other question is should employers pay a share of your property tax contribute to a sinking fund for repairs

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#46

Post by zeta0134 »

I'm firmly in camp "office time sounds wonderful" because I live alone, and as it turns out, not having any humans nearby is downright depressing. I'm also somewhat introverted (weird, right?) and while I was living with other people, I desired quite the opposite; staying at home was much less distracting than being in the chaos of a shared space most days.

So which do I prefer? Ehh, it depends. I'm not planning to live alone forever, it's just where I'm at right now. I'd imagine others are in a similar boat; we're different, and not necessarily constant either. So, as much as I encourage opening the offices back up and will take part in that space if given the chance, I wouldn't force that on anyone. I think the responsible thing to do is to measure performance rather than seat-in-chair, and so long as everyone's pulling their weight, let each employee make their own informed decision. It's their health on the line, after all, and healthy employees do better work.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#47

Post by mikestew »

lenitabinol wrote: post #9
kevingadd wrote: post #3

"One worker’s company “had everyone come into the office for an outdoor luncheon a week ago,” according to a post" Some of the stuff companies do truly baffles me. It's only the beginning of June, you can't really assume your whole team is fully vaccinated. Why would you bring everyone in for lunch and then send them home? All downside and near-zero upside. It'd be another matter if it was a full day event where you…

Every 16+ year old in the Bay Area has had access to a vaccine for 6 weeks.

Seattle area has had access at least as long, and I drove 90 minutes to get that shot as early as I could. I hit full vaccination status on Monday of this week, so no outdoor lunches for me last week. Which makes me kinda wonder what point you're trying to make.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#48

Post by matwood »

kevingadd wrote: post #3

"One worker’s company “had everyone come into the office for an outdoor luncheon a week ago,” according to a post" Some of the stuff companies do truly baffles me. It's only the beginning of June, you can't really assume your whole team is fully vaccinated. Why would you bring everyone in for lunch and then send them home? All downside and near-zero upside. It'd be another matter if it was a full day event where you…

My entire team has been fully vaccinated for weeks at this point. If we did get everyone together we would obviously make exceptions for anyone who isn't vaccinated yet or even just doesn't feel comfortable yet. My wife and I have been fully vaccinated for awhile, and even then, doing things in public has been weird.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#49

Post by mech422 »

throwawayboise wrote: post #20
mech422 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been WFH for 20 years now... It gets easier all the time, the pay gets better, and I actually have a much better setup at home then I've ever had in an office (Granted, I've had 20 years to set it up...) I'm not concerned about 'losing out' in any capacity going forward, especially now when its become so common.

Where do you find work? Is it all for one client or are you more of a consultant/contractor?

I'm currently a full time employee at a contract firm. Befor e that, I was full time with an international firm and before that I was full time with a local CDN provider. that goes back about 10 years...

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#50

Post by CapmCrackaWaka »

The pros and cons of remote work have posted many times here. Just like most things, it is going to come down to market forces determining whether remote work will stick.

If employers discover that they can pay less (in real estate and salary!) if they offer remote work as an option, while keeping the efficiency of an office worker, then the companies that do this will have a competitive edge. If companies discover that having employees in the office is a competitive advantage, then I don't care how harshly HN lambasts office work, it will make a comeback.

I expect the result will be somewhere in the middle. Certainly different jobs and industries are going to be affected differently. As HN is mostly computer jockeys, I have no doubt that remote work will be more common to the people here.

Post reply on HN