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Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

theguardian.com

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Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#41

Post by jmfldn »

anthropodie wrote: post #36

It will take years before we have settled on work from home or office. I don't think a mix will exist, either entire team will WFH or WFO. The good thing is the experiment has started. Many companies are becoming remote friendly. The long term effects of WFH on companies success will determine whether it will be WFH or WFO. Whatever it is the rest of companies will have to adapt to new paradigm.

I prefer the hybrid option but faced with the binary choice I would choose WFH. I'd forego money and even career opportunities for it. As long as I can pay the bills and do reasonably interesting and useful work it will be hard to lure me back. Maybe I'm an outlier but I suspect I'm part of a significant demographic at least.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#42

Post by the_gipsy »

darkwater wrote: post #31
swiley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WFH is an instant 13-20% raise for most people because they're not compensated for the commute. The same economic effect that results in SWEs being paid well above minimum wage will also result in widespread remote work. If you like socializing you can still do that, in fact you can do more of it since you're not spending an hour or two every day in a car, alone.

I don't know where you live but you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side. And there are people who likes to physically separate their personal life from their work life. And I'm a pre-pandemic remot…

No, it's not WFH enthusiasts being radical, it's both sides. It's just an extremely polarizing topic.

Managers must understand this and simply work it out for both sides. It's not hard, really.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#43

Post by amriksohata »

I found the vast majority of people prefer complete wfh or a hybrid split in favour of wfh, with occasional trips into the office.

I only have seen about 10% of staff or less wanting the opposite or completely office based work.

Like many have said here, commercial property vendors who have had their heydey now are scared of losing their rent. There are also businesses who rely on lunchtimes but they can always offer delivery. Economics always wins so businesses have to adapt.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#44

Post by anthropodie »

jolux wrote: post #25
tehbeard wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us don't have a separate room for an office, or might be stuck using our own equipment (pc, phone) for our job now, which blurs the lines on home/work.

Yeah, I have to work in the same room that I sleep in, and I only have one monitor and one desk.

I understand.

But if you could choose permanent work from home would you really work from the same room? In my case, I would ditch my apartment go back to my hometown build a home with a dedicated office.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#45

Post by zimpenfish »

darkwater wrote: post #31
swiley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WFH is an instant 13-20% raise for most people because they're not compensated for the commute. The same economic effect that results in SWEs being paid well above minimum wage will also result in widespread remote work. If you like socializing you can still do that, in fact you can do more of it since you're not spending an hour or two every day in a car, alone.

I don't know where you live but you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side. And there are people who likes to physically separate their personal life from their work life. And I'm a pre-pandemic remot…

> I don't really understand why WFH enthusiasts are usually so radical on this topic.

I venture that it's partially down to years of "NO, WFH would RUIN the business and CATASTROPHISE us into BANKRUPTCY!!!" from businesses when people requested it and ... it turned out to be bullshit, everything pretty much worked ok when everyone was WFH, and people are not minded to let business slip back into their previous bullshit without a fight.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#46

Post by anthropodie »

flukus wrote: post #39
anthropodie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess finally it comes down to individual choice. Let people choose where they want to work from!

Problem is, many of the reasons people prefer in-office require the rest of us to be in the office. Some are manageable, if you like the social aspect there will be others like that and they can be social together. Others like "better collaboration" really require a decent chunk of your immediate team to be there.

I mentioned this in other comment thread.

If people who want to work from office find themselves in empty office then they need to adapt to this new paradigm shift the same way rest of us adapted to loud open offices where anyone can walk up to anyone and interrupt the flow.

Some people adapt to whatever reality is while others force their responsibility of adaptation on their peers/environment.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#47

Post by 1_player »

Bombthecat wrote: post #28
SilverRed wrote: post #2

It almost feels like there is a conspiracy brewing to talk down on WFH despite most employees loving it. I suspect that the commercial property owners and middle managers are behind this because they are the ones who have mostly lost out here. The cat is out of the bag I think. Once people can work from home in a post covid world where they can socialize normally, I think many companies, and especially in software de…

Yeah, the other thread, the guy most upvoted, talks about how amazing office is,while when asked: 86 percent reply they don't want to go back. Upvote bots are active now on hackernews, its sad, but bound to happen.

It's not upvote bots, it's called a "vocal minority". It sounds really loud, because the majority don't have to shout to be heard.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#48

Post by soco »

anthropodie wrote: post #16
codingdave wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it is just the concept of the vocal minority. People who are seeing the world go their way tend to just enjoy the ride. People who don't like how it is going tend to be quite vocal about their displeasure. Minority opinions can be quite loud, in any aspect of our society. Personally, I want to respect our differences. I support people figuring out where they want to work and finding companies who let them…

Let people choose where they want to work from! Now if people who want to work from office find themselves in empty office then they need to adapt to this new paradigm shift the same way rest of us adapted to loud open offices where anyone can walk up to anyone and interrupt the flow. Some people adapt to whatever reality is while others force their responsibility of adaptation on their peers/environment.

This is already an extreme view: why should the office be empty? Unless the company is 2 people, there's a good chance the socialite is not alone, and most people aren't 100% committed in either direction anyway. The solution could be actually trivial: poll the employees preferences, rent a smaller office space, use an online scheduler for office time, there we go.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#49

Post by zimpenfish »

tehbeard wrote: post #18
flukus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My feeling is that working in an office makes it possible for me to separate work from the rest of my life This is seems to be pretty common, can you explain why it's so hard to separate? Generally I start the work day by turning on the work computer, when I'm done I turn it off and anything beyond that is the sort of rare exception I would have logged in from home for even if I was working in the office. That and…

Most of us don't have a separate room for an office, or might be stuck using our own equipment (pc, phone) for our job now, which blurs the lines on home/work.

> which blurs the lines on home/work.

I set up a `work` account on my laptop which helps to give a distinction because it keeps all of "my" stuff away (although I will confess to logging into HN as me from the `work` account...)

Lacking a distinct room is tricky but I got a little folding desk that's designated as "work" - when it's up, it's work time. Otherwise it goes down the side of the couch/chair.

Not the same as commuting to an office but little things that give a slightly brighter edge between home/work.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#50

Post by Ekaros »

anthropodie wrote: post #44
jolux wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have to work in the same room that I sleep in, and I only have one monitor and one desk.

I understand. But if you could choose permanent work from home would you really work from the same room? In my case, I would ditch my apartment go back to my hometown build a home with a dedicated office.

Moved back to my hometown with above median wage. Still can't afford 3 rooms... So no office for me. Just not realistic in some parts of world. Unless I'm willing to move far away from the town itself(everything is relative, European distances for towns are short).
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