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New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

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Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#41

Post by jvanderbot »

gpm wrote: post #24
jvanderbot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, this is why I'm confused. There's no play by any sufficiently advanced adversary that makes sense. Except domestic terrorism. A fairly rich / savvy domestic actor with bad intent might be interested in seeing if they can fly about with a fast / large drone. Prior to, you know, equipping that drone with something bad.

Why domestic? The US isn't lacking in international adversaries that would be interested in the ability to execute low cost attacks against critical infrastructure. If it was domestic terrorists it seems likely they would have seized the opportunity to do damage immediately instead of showing their hand like this. An "advanced persistent threat" (such as a foreign country) to borrow from the computer security world s…

I suppose I mis-spoke. Could easily be a domestic ally of a foreign adversary.

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#42

Post by bobthepanda »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #23
gpm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to test your ability to get physical payloads in place, e.g. in the future the drone could carry a bomb or something else clever (listening devices? Dropping gallium on aluminum airplanes? Etc) You want low angle shots? You're not well funded enough to get good satellite photos?

> Dropping gallium on aluminum airplanes? Is there anything that building a delivery mechanism to carry and then drop gallium onto a plane does that an actual gun wouldn't?

It doesn‘t need a clear vantage point with straight-line access to the target.

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#43

Post by Retric »

throwaway4688 wrote: post #36

I am quite surprised we have not seen drones as instruments of terror yet.

It’s already common for nations to do so. For individuals missiles, bullets, or bombs etc are generally more efficient as very long range drones are still expensive and cheaper options exist at short ranges.

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#45

Post by pueblito »

showerst wrote: post #7
ericbarrett wrote: post #4

Is there any conclusion to reach here (assuming this report is correct) besides a hostile entity scouting U.S. infrastructure? See also: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/drones-swarmed-u-s-wars...

Could be any number of defense contractors, military, or LEO recklessly testing out a high end drone, then breaking the rules to avoid consequences. Is there any intelligence that a drone that size could provide that you couldn't get from a combination of satellites and just driving around a decent camera? It seems really risky for a foreign adversary for limited gain.

> Is there any intelligence that a drone that size could provide that you couldn't get from a combination of satellites and just driving around a decent camera?

Dropping disguised sensors for espionage comes immediately to mind

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#46

Post by postalrat »

HideousKojima wrote: post #39
toss1 wrote: post #14

It could be interesting that the 4-6 rotor configuration, range/time of around and hour and 50mi, and the 14,000ft+ performance strongly indicate a fuel-powered device, but that the night vision goggles couldn't see it. It didn't indicate if the NVGs were of the ambient-light-enhancing type or IR type. This probably tells us that the NVGs were the ambient-light-enhancing type as there would be very little ambient ref…

I thought gas didn't really work with quad/hexa/octorotors because gas motors can't cycle up and down as quickly and reliably as electric, and fine-tuned control of rotor speed is essential to how a quadrotor works EDIT: nope I'm stupid

It could either be a hybrid with the engine running a generator or use variable pitch props.

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#47

Post by mcphage »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #27
hluska wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the description “The quad copter was described as approximately 5 feet long by about 3 feet wide, with a single green flashing LED light.”

Closer to Batman dimensions (Michael Keaton)

If it was Batman, it would have a black LED.

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#48

Post by showerst »

ericbarrett wrote: post #17
showerst wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be any number of defense contractors, military, or LEO recklessly testing out a high end drone, then breaking the rules to avoid consequences. Is there any intelligence that a drone that size could provide that you couldn't get from a combination of satellites and just driving around a decent camera? It seems really risky for a foreign adversary for limited gain.

I can't imagine a defense contractor imperiling their flow of money when they could certainly arrange to test at White Sands or some such. This kind of thing is straight to jail, do pass Go, do not collect $2 billion. LEO, same; perhaps they might play loose with the law, but around refueling infrastructure and airports? That brings the Feds in 100%. Again, straight to jail. What is the risk/reward here? A three-lett…

Someone in the article comments pointed out that everything described could be accomplished by a $25,000 off the shelf drone from lockheed [1].

Now that's not something you find on every street corner, but well within the range of 'training some bored enlisted guys' or 'contractors on an evening test mission'. I'm not sure if they sell those to energy companies, but if so that fits as well.

I've heard many stories of crazier shenanigans from those types than "we were fooling around with the drone off flight-plan then got too close to the airport, and they called a freaking police helicopter so we took off lol."

I'll admit that it's a low risk-reward scenario, but especially given all the test infrastructure in the desert out there, it seems more Hanlon's razor appropriate to me than a foreign adversary testing high-end surveillance technology deep in enemy territory completely obliviously. They even left a running-light on!

[1] https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/r...

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#49

Post by tablespoon »

devmor wrote: post #26
Wistar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that the creators of the drone bothered with a flashing light.

That's the one detail of the story that leads me to believe it may have been some rich idiot that didn't know the legality of what they were doing. Also entirely possible they used some stock parts and just didn't realize the LED was there.

> Also entirely possible they used some stock parts and just didn't realize the LED was there.

I only think an amateur would make that kind of mistake. If it was from a hostile power with any kind of competence, I think they would have extensively tested it in simulated operational conditions. If they didn't notice the light when they initially built it, they would have probably noticed it during testing.

Re: New Details Emerge on the “Highly Modified Drone” That Outran Police Helicopters

#50

Post by juancb »

toss1 wrote: post #14

It could be interesting that the 4-6 rotor configuration, range/time of around and hour and 50mi, and the 14,000ft+ performance strongly indicate a fuel-powered device, but that the night vision goggles couldn't see it. It didn't indicate if the NVGs were of the ambient-light-enhancing type or IR type. This probably tells us that the NVGs were the ambient-light-enhancing type as there would be very little ambient ref…

You're overlooking one critical point in your deduction about type of NVGs used. The drone was visible with the naked eye due to a green position light, which should have been enhanced and been visible under through the night vision goggles. The article says the drone was last seen entering IMC at 14,000MSL while the helicopter's ADS-B track shows it reached 12,000MSL which means the helicopter could see the light at least 2,000 feet away, which suggests a bright light that should have been visible through light amplification.

It's more likely that the night vision device was either malfunctioning or pilot error made its use ineffective.

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