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Technology “Addiction”

jasonfeifer.com

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Re: Technology “Addiction”

#41

Post by ultrastable »

twodave wrote: post #38
ultrastable wrote: post #35

"Nir Eyal: The vast majority of people stop playing these video games. Do you think people are still going to be playing Fortnite and Candy Crush in 10 years or so? Of course not, they'll be doing something else once they get interested in other things that they decide to pursue. So, if it's really the behavior this technology is doing to us, that shouldn't make sense. They should be addicts for life, but that's clea…

True--still, with many things (I'd say anything besides actual hard drugs) it's easy to confuse casual use with addiction. "Spending a lot of time" playing a video game is NOT the same as skipping meals, lying, self-isolating and losing sleep to keep playing.

yeah, I don't disagree w/ the fact that the word "addiction" shouldn't be thrown around too casually, but I don't like the way they're scolding others for being insufficiently scientific while they demonstrate their own ignorance

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#42

Post by ultrastable »

twodave wrote: post #38
ultrastable wrote: post #35

"Nir Eyal: The vast majority of people stop playing these video games. Do you think people are still going to be playing Fortnite and Candy Crush in 10 years or so? Of course not, they'll be doing something else once they get interested in other things that they decide to pursue. So, if it's really the behavior this technology is doing to us, that shouldn't make sense. They should be addicts for life, but that's clea…

True--still, with many things (I'd say anything besides actual hard drugs) it's easy to confuse casual use with addiction. "Spending a lot of time" playing a video game is NOT the same as skipping meals, lying, self-isolating and losing sleep to keep playing.

and re: hard drugs, casual use of those that doesn't meet addiction thresholds is way more common than most people think

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#44

Post by emerged »

rasen58 wrote: post #25
caymanjim wrote: post #5

This is a horrible format for providing the transcript, and a long and boring conversation, so I didn't read much of it...but from what I can tell, they're just trying to redefine the word 'addiction' to a narrow, specific, and arbitrary meaning. I've consumed plenty of supposedly-addictive chemicals, and aside from nicotine, none of them have the kind of pyschological hold over me--or rewarding brain-chemical satisf…

Do you have any advice for breaking video game addiction? I feel like it affects me a lot.

See if you can transfer the addiction to a fitness game? Suddenly the addiction becomes a virtue and is strengthened by the endorphin highs.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#45

Post by ultrastable »

twodave wrote: post #38
ultrastable wrote: post #35

"Nir Eyal: The vast majority of people stop playing these video games. Do you think people are still going to be playing Fortnite and Candy Crush in 10 years or so? Of course not, they'll be doing something else once they get interested in other things that they decide to pursue. So, if it's really the behavior this technology is doing to us, that shouldn't make sense. They should be addicts for life, but that's clea…

True--still, with many things (I'd say anything besides actual hard drugs) it's easy to confuse casual use with addiction. "Spending a lot of time" playing a video game is NOT the same as skipping meals, lying, self-isolating and losing sleep to keep playing.

not to mention - it's a little convenient that the author of a book called "Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products" is telling us that actually, we shouldn't be worried about those products

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#46

Post by Inhibit »

One can be an addict. To my mind the condition of addiction is, at least somewhat, divorced from the object of the addiction. Addiction certainly seems to survive its initial objects absence.

I would probably put the quotes around Technology above, rather than Addicted. Could be it's the pathology expressing itself and whatever the technology is is only tangentially related to what's going on.

To my mind this can all be in a similar silo to gambling or love addiction. How different is a slot machine from many games?

Just my 2 cents and not a professional analysis.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#47

Post by jrochkind1 »

travisjungroth wrote: post #39
jrochkind1 wrote: post #32

I always agreed that "addiction" was the wrong word for most/all things that were not chemical substances. But then i quit smoking cigarettes, which was very challenging, and involved really paying attention to my relationship with smoking and how it made me feel and why I did it. Through that process, I started to see a lot of similarities between my use of social media and my use of cigarettes. The way I used them…

> Through that process, I started to see a lot of similarities between my use of social media and my use of cigarettes. My experience is that they're not just similar, they're the same. The tug of a vape pen and the tug of a phone are indistinguishable from another except for the object they point to. If I didn't have one on me, I'd reach for the other.

Interesting to hear similar experiences, I haven't heard this talked about much, specifically with cigarettes and social media. But yeah, pretty much.

I wouldn't go so far to say exactly the same for me, the "withdrawal" feeling of not having smoked a cigarettes was stronger for me than anything with social media, providing another dimension. But yeah, I identify with what you are saying, the circumstances and feelings around reaching for one or the other were very similar for me too, and with both of them I'd decide "I'm going to not use them for X amount of time" and then renege on my agreement with myself when the feelings arose. I still haven't quit social media...

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#48

Post by defaultname »

louis___ wrote: post #16
dalbasal wrote: post #8

I haven't listened to the episode, so this may be off, but... our broad use of the word “addiction” can cause real harm. I would say that the opposite is (at least) as harmful. Quantifying and medically defining addiction narrowly has led to a lot of harm. Smoking is extremely hard to kick, with some first handers claiming that its worse than heroin. People rarely prostitute themselves (or others) for tobacco though.…

Exactly this. The " discover who really has the power to break these supposed “addictions.” (Hint: It’s you.) " rethoric is always pushed by lobbies for industries who do not want to be considered responsible for the harm their products cause. For example, MacDonalds and other fast-food producers have been pushing that in order to fight rampant obesity, people should do more sport, rather than have limited access to…

I've eaten at McDonalds. Yet I only eat there infrequently, usually when traveling and want something quick. I'm not obese.

Did they forget to put the "addictive" additive in mine?

Misusing the word addictive to mean "things that aren't beneficial, and can be detrimental in excess" is not helpful to anyone.

People who are depressed self-sabotage in a wide variety of ways. They sleep all day. Maybe overeat. Maybe sit flicking through TikTok all day. Some even clean endlessly. That doesn't mean any of those things are "addictive".

This whole discussion borders on parody. People with zero responsibility or self-control screaming that they have no self direction and need their world corralled and constrained for them. Beyond bizarre. And apparently these amazingly addictive ingredients only work on Americans, who seem to lack any self-reflection or inquisitiveness as to why that is.

I read a Robertson Davies trilogy for hours last night. Probably stayed up a little late. Blame it on Big Books and the Book Cartel for Addicting me like this.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#49

Post by bellazeus »

dalbasal wrote: post #8

I haven't listened to the episode, so this may be off, but... our broad use of the word “addiction” can cause real harm. I would say that the opposite is (at least) as harmful. Quantifying and medically defining addiction narrowly has led to a lot of harm. Smoking is extremely hard to kick, with some first handers claiming that its worse than heroin. People rarely prostitute themselves (or others) for tobacco though.…

>> People rarely prostitute themselves (or others) for tobacco though.

Not really a fair comparison of addictive qualities. If heroin were legal, regulated, and priced accordingly, no-one would prostitute themselves (or others) for it.

Re: Technology “Addiction”

#50

Post by bonoboTP »

rasen58 wrote: post #25
caymanjim wrote: post #5

This is a horrible format for providing the transcript, and a long and boring conversation, so I didn't read much of it...but from what I can tell, they're just trying to redefine the word 'addiction' to a narrow, specific, and arbitrary meaning. I've consumed plenty of supposedly-addictive chemicals, and aside from nicotine, none of them have the kind of pyschological hold over me--or rewarding brain-chemical satisf…

Do you have any advice for breaking video game addiction? I feel like it affects me a lot.

Sorry if this is too obvious or unuseful or feels condescending etc. Just a direction.

Concentrate not on the games but what it replaces. Is it a lack of community? No other outlet to feel skilled and successful? The goal isn't merely to stop playing games, it is to find more healthy but similarly satisfactory replacements (but maybe in a longer timescale). What thoughts are you avoiding, are you in some kind of guilt cycle etc? A key part is to know: your life afterwards won't and should not be merely your current life minus games. That would be terrible and frightening probably. But no, the goal is to feel satisfied through other means. Another thing is to recognize that you are in a local optimum. Perhaps it is a (short-term) rational choice to play games in your situation. To escape the local optimum you'll have to temporarily go through a worse situation where even the only thing you derive real joy from is taken away. Furthermore, it could be that your way of life is a local optimum within a pretty large volume of alternatives. Meaning that it might well be that the current social culture around you isn't giving you much better options, depending on who you are, ie society might be incentivizing this behavior through the state of dating, decaying communities, attention economy, consumerism etc. Still, wouldnt it be better to find it out yourself? For my disagreeable personality, I find it useful to feel hostile to the creators of these attention black holes, these exploiters of young men, and feel viscerally repulsed by what they are doing in the name of profit to destroy a generation. This is no way to live, it's like being a domesticated zoo animal. We are destined to more than this.

Of course a therapist specialized in the area can give better concrete steps.

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