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1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

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Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#41

Post by jacquesm »

trhway wrote: post #3

i don't believe in physical limits for computation since beginning of 90ties when i read about 50MHz being the fundamental impossible to surpass limit and few years later i had DX4-133 running at home. Saying that with high appreciation for the grit of the people in the industry who has taken us that far and going to take even farther.

The 50 MHz limit had to do with spreading a synchronous clock across the longest dimension of a motherboard. By splitting the on-chip and off-chip clocks out we managed to get much higher clockrates (across much shorter distances). It's often the details that matter a lot with such statements and if a metric is presented without context then you can easily stray into territory where such statements are no longer necessarily valid, even though in principle they carry a core of truth.

In practice the only real fundamental limit to how fast you can clock a processor has to do with the gate rise and fall times, which are in turn intimately coupled to how large those gates are (the main factor in determining their capacitance) and the resistance in the charging circuitry for the gate. This is essentially an RLC network where all of the dominant factors are parasitic. What the real practical limits are is as of yet unknown but you always have to keep in mind is that this is tech at the cutting edge and that what is impossible today may very well a breakthrough away from being common.

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#42

Post by ip26 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #12

Challenging to read things that are auto-translated from Chinese into English. From what I gather from the article, didn't get the Nature paper yet, the novelty here is a bismuth deposition process that doesn't damage fine structures underneath it. This is definitely one of the hard problems in semiconductor manufacturing and as stated, it is implied it allows for very fine lines (1 nm) for connecting elements on a c…

Improved contact resistance may translate most significantly to speed. The drive strength of a fet is significantly hampered by high output resistance - especially for small gates.

It isn't quite clear why they are developing 2D. Planar fets must leak terribly at these sizes.

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#43

Post by comboy »

datameta wrote: post #35
comboy wrote: post #2

Poor IBM. It's as if we had only one efficient oil well for the whole world. It's getting a bit hot.

Curious about what you mean - could you please expand?

There is currently no real competition for TSMC, many wealthy corporations are trying and failing. Many economies depend on chips that come from there.

Historically, wars were often fought about some resource with limited access.

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#44

Post by billiam »

TSMC's fabrication leadership has never been greater, regardless of the marketing speak they are at the forefront. All the more amazing given for a "renegade province" that has thrived despite continual attempts to economically isolate it by the empire next door.

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#45

Post by eunos »

billiam wrote: post #44

TSMC's fabrication leadership has never been greater, regardless of the marketing speak they are at the forefront. All the more amazing given for a "renegade province" that has thrived despite continual attempts to economically isolate it by the empire next door.

>continual attempts to economically isolate it by the empire next door.

LOL. China is Taiwan biggest trade partner and source of trade surplus.

And they can get US military hardware and latest semiconductor equipment tools as well.

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#46

Post by dang »

eunos wrote: post #45
billiam wrote: post #44

TSMC's fabrication leadership has never been greater, regardless of the marketing speak they are at the forefront. All the more amazing given for a "renegade province" that has thrived despite continual attempts to economically isolate it by the empire next door.

>continual attempts to economically isolate it by the empire next door. LOL. China is Taiwan biggest trade partner and source of trade surplus. And they can get US military hardware and latest semiconductor equipment tools as well.

Please make your substantive points without swipes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#47

Post by nine_k »

edgyquant wrote: post #21
threatofrain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO GiB and gigabit are deliberately consumer-confusing terms with an even clearer standard definition.

Same with 4K, prior to it the number was used to describe the height of the screen (480, 720, 1080) but then 4K describes the width which confuses people into thinking it has 4x the resolution of 1080 when it’s really 2160 (double the resolution.)

But 4K is 4x the 1080 / FullHD. It's twice as wide, and twice as tall, it's four 1080 screens glued together.

But definitely there is nothing 4000 about it, it's 3840 by 2160, about 8.3 megapixels.

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#48

Post by nine_k »

ksec wrote: post #29
out_of_protocol wrote: post #6

That "1nm" is complete marketing bullshit, like it always was, for a decade or two. Silicon lattice step is ~0.5nm, so 1nm is at most 3 atoms. Current technology is definitely not there yet however we're getting closer. Very interested what marketing department will say after 1nm became old news

>Very interested what marketing department will say after 1nm became old news 0.8nm. Something TSMC stated they intend to bring to market by 2030. Yes it is marketing term. But I thought everyone should know that by now.

Picometers await.

But past 500 pm, the distance between silicon atoms in the crystal lattice, it will become increasingly harder to ascribe any physical sense to it at all.

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#49

Post by edgyquant »

chrischen wrote: post #30
edgyquant wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with 4K, prior to it the number was used to describe the height of the screen (480, 720, 1080) but then 4K describes the width which confuses people into thinking it has 4x the resolution of 1080 when it’s really 2160 (double the resolution.)

HD ~= 1080p ~= 1K. 4 x 1080p ~= 4K.

But 4K isn’t 4x 1080 (as a description of height) it is 2x

Re: 1nm Breakthrough: TSMC, MIT and NTU Published on Nature

#50

Post by chrischen »

edgyquant wrote: post #49
chrischen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HD ~= 1080p ~= 1K. 4 x 1080p ~= 4K.

But 4K isn’t 4x 1080 (as a description of height) it is 2x

Yes they went from counting interlaced vertical lines to progressive lines, to the number of 1080P pixels. The 4 in 4K refers to the number increase in pixel count.
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