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If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

theguardian.com

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Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#41

Post by actuator »

This is not true. As I have submitted on HN earlier, Apple is using the purchases data to customise ads. https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT208477

You can make a case that the ad targeting is just on App Store, News and Stocks but that is just for now, Apple used to have an ad platform iAd which wasn't that successful, so it was discontinued. Once they milk other revenue streams and are more of a monopolistic power in other web properties(like Maps), I am quite sure ads will make a return.

Bottom line is, at this point Apple is also building user profiles like Facebook.

Edit:

It seems like Ben has deleted his tweet. I will just update the link to Apple's support page and quote the relevant section.

"""We also use information about your account, purchases, and downloads in the stores to offer advertising to ensure that ads on the App Store, Apple News, and Stocks, where available, are relevant to you."""

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#42

Post by NalNezumi »

landryraccoon wrote: post #25

I see a bunch of comments talking about how Apple is being self serving and not at all altruistic when they defend our privacy. And my response is - well duh. And this is supposed to be a problem how? Apple wants my money and nothing else. They aren't motivated to protect my privacy out of the goodness of their hearts. I am happy to pay money for more privacy. The fact that they only do this because they want my mone…

As another comment pointed out Signal as one software, we also have Purism[0] for privacy-minded hardware

[0] https://puri.sm/

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#43

Post by etchalon »

unreal37 wrote: post #6

Apple is in it for themselves too. Stop falling for this.

"Apple is in it for themselves. As opposed to those other companies, who track us without abandon and sell our data to whomever will pay. Those companies are in it because they love us."

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#44

Post by spoonjim »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #17

There's still a huge elephant in the room. How are we supposed to trust Apple, Microsoft or any other tech company when it emerged that they fully cooperated with the NSA and their PRISM program. We have to just assume that's still running. Businesses could keep a lot of secrets from us and they're not transparent or accountable to the public.

It’s basically impossible for an American company to defy the American government. They can try in court but ultimately the government has F-22s and nuclear weapons and Apple does not.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#45

Post by Fezzik »

zelon88 wrote: post #22
gordon_freeman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't get it. Apple is not making any decisions on whether to allow apps to track or not. They are simply delegating that choice to their users (and rightly so). The user has power to chose which advertisers he or she can trust showing them the useful ads and allow those apps to track. If ads are not useful or are exploitative of their data then they can chose not to allow tracking. As simple as that.

I believe it is you who has a misunderstanding. Let's word this differently. Apple gives apps the ability to track and users the option to disable that feature, but they built it with dark patterns. Now they've removed the dark patterns, but you can still have this awful feature that nobody wants. Why? And why is Apple getting credit for removing dark patterns that they created earlier? Why does this feature exist if…

You seem to be implying that when Apple opened their App Store, just 13 years ago in 2008, that it was an intentional decision to allow “dark patterns,” but this really does not seem to be born out by Apple’s practices. After releasing a gigantic/global app store in 2008 Apple has done nothing but reduce and limit the ability of third parties to track iOS users, amongst other actions that are purely protective of users. Furthermore, I see some beneficence in their actions, in that it’s not like there is a huge public uproar directed at Apple compelling them to make these changes (though my hunch is it’s more about cutting away at FB and Google profits than anything else).

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#46

Post by spoonjim »

unreal37 wrote: post #6

Apple is in it for themselves too. Stop falling for this.

Of course Apple is in it for themselves, it’s just that Apple’s interests and mine overlap, as is supposed to be the case in the classical formulation of economics. I don’t mind that Apple or LEGO or Pixar is “out for themselves” — I care when the companies I transact with choose to enrich themselves from someone else’s pocket for someone else’s interests rather than from my pocket for my interests.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#47

Post by t-writescode »

slver wrote: post #27

While some worry that Apple's the only organization defending privacy, others are attacking it for trying to control its ecosystem (in part so it can defend their users' privacy). That's the world right now.

For what it's worth, I'm one of the people that's doing both. I want the store monopolies to be greatly reduced for my benefit as the consumer - and yes, I will continue to acquire and purchase things through the app store, in general, because I trust their system a lot; BUT, I also applaud them and primarily purchase their hardware because I appreciate their privacy.

It's possible to have nuance in these positions.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#48

Post by nemothekid »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #30
Synaesthesia wrote: post #17

There's still a huge elephant in the room. How are we supposed to trust Apple, Microsoft or any other tech company when it emerged that they fully cooperated with the NSA and their PRISM program. We have to just assume that's still running. Businesses could keep a lot of secrets from us and they're not transparent or accountable to the public.

I feel despair because my government is supposed to be upholding my fundamental right to privacy but, clearly, the Fourth Amendment is something that can be selectively upheld or discarded. So what’s left? For me to hope that some company will respect my “rights”?

>For me to hope that some company will respect my “rights”?

Is that reasonable? If the government is your adversary and you suspect they aren't playing fair, then it's only a matter of time before the government puts the pressure on that company as well. Either they play ball, or they fold like Lavabit did.

At that point you need to self host all your infrastructure as well as you can, and it becomes difficult to trust anyone else.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#49

Post by trapped »

theshrike79 wrote: post #28
gordon_freeman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only other company I could think of that is playing in this privacy game is: Signal. And well they are a nonprofit and they prove that privacy is not only made affordable for the rich and affluent and anyone can have private communication whether they donate to Signal or not.

And Signal still leaks phone numbers to people, that's why I refuse use it for group chats. For encrypted 1-1 with people I already know it's fine though.

Better than Zynga, right? Corporation which has leaked kids data. Clones games, manipulates kids and adults in spending thousands of $$$ on virtual things, screwed employees from stock compensation.

It's easy to criticize, right? Signal and Apple are at-least doing better than Zynga.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#50

Post by harry8 »

The privacy debacle on tech is yet another case of anyone in pistons of power making decisions about technology knowing absolutely nothing about it.

The big consulting firms have monetized this. Silicon valley ad-tech too.

I keep hoping it can't last.

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