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The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

vitalik.ca

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Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#41

Post by mvzvm »

conception wrote: post #33
mvzvm wrote: post #26

Scam after scam, that's all blockchain is. Just another way to fleece the average consumer. There has not been a single valuable use, a single product, that actually improves anyone's day / process / life / anything. I am very open to changing my stance if someone presents evidence to the contrary.

Remittances are better/easier. That’s the only thing I’ve seen and the tech to do that is trivial now and Bitcoin is terrible for it specifically now.

Are they? I've had no issues with remittances outside of blockchain. In places where I have heard remittances are difficult, it is usually due to regulation, something this does not solve either.

Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#42

Post by cinntaile »

mvzvm wrote: post #26

Scam after scam, that's all blockchain is. Just another way to fleece the average consumer. There has not been a single valuable use, a single product, that actually improves anyone's day / process / life / anything. I am very open to changing my stance if someone presents evidence to the contrary.

Just by the way you describe it you already signal that you're not open to change your stance. Which is fine by me, but don't fool yourself.

Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#44

Post by john_alan »

mvzvm wrote: post #26

Scam after scam, that's all blockchain is. Just another way to fleece the average consumer. There has not been a single valuable use, a single product, that actually improves anyone's day / process / life / anything. I am very open to changing my stance if someone presents evidence to the contrary.

Monero.

It’s provided a private money for the internet.

That helps people. It’s valuable.

A permissionless, censorshipless decentralised private money.

Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#45

Post by jeremycarter »

seibelj wrote: post #39
jeremycarter wrote: post #16

Blockchain, Decentralization and Smart Contracts have had nearly a decade to prove their value and disrupt the marketplace. So far nothing but whitepapers, pipe dreams and exit scams - nothing my mother can use. What's the point? Nobody is using crypto as an alternative to fiat. Prove me wrong.

I have responded to a thousand versions of your comment on HN. No matter what I write the haters never change their minds. HN is not an enthusiastic place for blockchain devs.

I'm not a hater. I am just applying some critical thinking and design thinking to try to figure out where the value is in all of this to the customer. I am happy to say I'm wrong, and happy to backflip.

Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#46

Post by diegocg »

542458 wrote: post #11
javert wrote: post #6

You could also just not scale the blockchain, and instead use layer 2 solutions, which is the bitcoin approach.

BTC’s layer 2 method also doesn’t scale because (among other reasons) you still need on-chain transactions to handle opening connections and creating wallets, which the main chain does not have the throughput to do at scale. That’s also not to mention all the practical difficulties of using lightning (have to constantly monitor for fraudulent closing of connections, locks up liquidity, etc) and technical issues (rout…

Don't worry, bitcoin will solve these problems... With a third layer!

Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#48

Post by k__ »

jeremycarter wrote: post #16

Blockchain, Decentralization and Smart Contracts have had nearly a decade to prove their value and disrupt the marketplace. So far nothing but whitepapers, pipe dreams and exit scams - nothing my mother can use. What's the point? Nobody is using crypto as an alternative to fiat. Prove me wrong.

I think, it will probably take another decade.

I think, BC could go to 5 million before it stablizes.

Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#49

Post by dmitriid »

bpodgursky wrote: post #25
jeremycarter wrote: post #16

Blockchain, Decentralization and Smart Contracts have had nearly a decade to prove their value and disrupt the marketplace. So far nothing but whitepapers, pipe dreams and exit scams - nothing my mother can use. What's the point? Nobody is using crypto as an alternative to fiat. Prove me wrong.

On January 29, 1886, Carl Benz applied for a patent for his “vehicle powered by a gas engine.” The patent – number 37435 – may be regarded as the birth certificate of the automobile. In July 1886 the newspapers reported on the first public outing of the three-wheeled Benz Patent Motor Car, model no. 1.

Do quote everything, while you're at it.

> The first production of automobiles was by Karl Benz in 1888 in Germany and, under license from Benz, in France by Emile Roger. There were numerous others, including tricycle builders Rudolf Egg, Edward Butler, and Léon Bollée. Bollée, using a 650 cc (40 cu in) engine of his own design, enabled his driver, Jamin, to average 45 kilometres per hour (28 mph) in the 1897 Paris-Tourville rally. By 1900, mass production of automobiles had begun in France and the United States.

So, 11 years after production started, gas-powered cars were not only rather common, but there were rallies involving them.

11 years from introduction, no one has come up with a use-case for blockchain: https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-... and https://medium.com/@kaistinchcombe/decentralized-and-trustle...

Re: The Limits to Blockchain Scalability

#50

Post by cinntaile »

narush wrote: post #38

One thing blockchain scalability conversations often miss is the concept of induced demand [1]. City streets and computer hardware and blockchain throughput. We dream that 'make bigger, make faster' will alleviate congestion in all of these places, and make our commute and compute as fast and cheap as we want it to be. But in practice, commuters are programmers are blockchain users. For commuters, if more lanes get a…

Induced demand is an argument frequently used against bigger roads but the reality is that the increase in road size takes many years before the road is at its maxed out capacity again so it definitely helps.
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