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India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

bbc.com

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Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#41

Post by thatguy0900 »

robbiep wrote: post #32
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, India had the world's largest protests by farmers protesting against removal of subsidies. https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/06/opinions/india-farmer-protest... > The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published Source?

I'm just trying to understand how insensitive it is to comment on a thread where OP is clearly someone who has either suffered loss or has an entire network suffering loss, and then go full strong systemiser and ask for a reference. The absurdity of asking is even stronger when almost any understanding of the situation on the ground in India would mean an understanding that there is widespread and systemic problems w…

So we should accept any numbers thrown out as long as the person is sufficiently bereaved? I don't even think their numbers are wrong but that's a silly concept. I am sorry for their, and everyone's, losses, but that doesn't give a liscense to claim anything unchallenged.

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#42

Post by actuator »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #40
actuator wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation is quite sad, and I am happy you and your family are fine as you mentioned in your other comment. I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. If you have data to back up the 10-100x claim, please share it. There has been undercounting in most countries and India having largely poor infra you would expect it to be higher there. The data has been analysed by a lot of experts and most are…

The global death toll is 2-3x than listed not for India.

Can you please read that graph again and tell me where you didn't have clarity?

~600k/~200k is ~ 3x.

Those are the numbers mentioned for the country in discussion here.

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#43

Post by statguy »

actuator wrote: post #30
ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #8

The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published officially. Most people died at homes due to them being rural and all hospitals working at capacity. At government hospitals, you have to be tested and be covid positive to be listed as covid death. Private hospitals in rural areas simply don't send the stats back. I don't know any family in India that didn't have a death among their relatives. They sai…

The situation is quite sad, and I am happy you and your family are fine as you mentioned in your other comment. I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. If you have data to back up the 10-100x claim, please share it. There has been undercounting in most countries and India having largely poor infra you would expect it to be higher there. The data has been analysed by a lot of experts and most are…

There is a lot of evidence that the death toll in India is an order of magnitude higher:

From this very article: "He said officially 196 people had died from the virus in Kanpur between 16 April and 5 May, but the data from seven crematoriums showed nearly 8,000 cremations."

Here is another analysis from Gujarat: https://mobile.twitter.com/deepakpatel_91/status/13930705967...

The study that you have linked to above has primarily focused on western countries, where the process of reporting and recording of deaths is much better than in India.

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#44

Post by bongoman37 »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #8

The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published officially. Most people died at homes due to them being rural and all hospitals working at capacity. At government hospitals, you have to be tested and be covid positive to be listed as covid death. Private hospitals in rural areas simply don't send the stats back. I don't know any family in India that didn't have a death among their relatives. They sai…

Things are pretty bad. I was talking to a colleague of mine who lost his Dad to COVID in Delhi and he said the wait time at the crematorium was super long. He found one guy was who in queue with bodies of both his parents for almost 18 hours. Given the situation, relatives are reluctant or unable to help so this guy just sat with the bodies all alone.

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#45

Post by avemuri »

actuator wrote: post #30
ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #8

The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published officially. Most people died at homes due to them being rural and all hospitals working at capacity. At government hospitals, you have to be tested and be covid positive to be listed as covid death. Private hospitals in rural areas simply don't send the stats back. I don't know any family in India that didn't have a death among their relatives. They sai…

The situation is quite sad, and I am happy you and your family are fine as you mentioned in your other comment. I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. If you have data to back up the 10-100x claim, please share it. There has been undercounting in most countries and India having largely poor infra you would expect it to be higher there. The data has been analysed by a lot of experts and most are…

Here's one state's 10x. https://thewire.in/health/not-covid-stunned-by-data-gujarat-...

>> I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though.

With due respect, our entire country is experiencing fear, uncertainty and certainly despair. Giving voice to it is not unreasonable.

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#46

Post by actuator »

statguy wrote: post #43
actuator wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation is quite sad, and I am happy you and your family are fine as you mentioned in your other comment. I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. If you have data to back up the 10-100x claim, please share it. There has been undercounting in most countries and India having largely poor infra you would expect it to be higher there. The data has been analysed by a lot of experts and most are…

There is a lot of evidence that the death toll in India is an order of magnitude higher: From this very article: "He said officially 196 people had died from the virus in Kanpur between 16 April and 5 May, but the data from seven crematoriums showed nearly 8,000 cremations." Here is another analysis from Gujarat: https://mobile.twitter.com/deepakpatel_91/status/13930705967... The study that you have linked to above h…

I think their analysis is also using the total pronounced deaths to Covid deaths and studying the delta from previous years, the same as the tweet you linked.

The figures seem higher in the tweet, I am guessing we will have more clarity on this once the situation settles down a bit and more data can be aggregated.

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#47

Post by robbiep »

hzay wrote: post #35
robbiep wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just trying to understand how insensitive it is to comment on a thread where OP is clearly someone who has either suffered loss or has an entire network suffering loss, and then go full strong systemiser and ask for a reference. The absurdity of asking is even stronger when almost any understanding of the situation on the ground in India would mean an understanding that there is widespread and systemic problems w…

A lot of comments that appear neutral here are actually political btw. Saying that deaths are undercounted or citing foreign media is seen as "anti national" now within India.

Everything regarding COVID is political which is absurd. I'm not indian or have any indian family but I am a Doctor and most of my lines of data come from the medical community reporting back

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#48

Post by robbiep »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #41
robbiep wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just trying to understand how insensitive it is to comment on a thread where OP is clearly someone who has either suffered loss or has an entire network suffering loss, and then go full strong systemiser and ask for a reference. The absurdity of asking is even stronger when almost any understanding of the situation on the ground in India would mean an understanding that there is widespread and systemic problems w…

So we should accept any numbers thrown out as long as the person is sufficiently bereaved? I don't even think their numbers are wrong but that's a silly concept. I am sorry for their, and everyone's, losses, but that doesn't give a liscense to claim anything unchallenged.

Of course not. But what does it add to the conversation in what is manifestly an out of control situation with terrible data all round. How do you respond to that when there are no good authorative sources, except Doctors reports, oxygen stockpiling, and lack of cremation space to the point that trees in parks are being cut down to burn bodies?

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#49

Post by actuator »

avemuri wrote: post #45
actuator wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation is quite sad, and I am happy you and your family are fine as you mentioned in your other comment. I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. If you have data to back up the 10-100x claim, please share it. There has been undercounting in most countries and India having largely poor infra you would expect it to be higher there. The data has been analysed by a lot of experts and most are…

Here's one state's 10x. https://thewire.in/health/not-covid-stunned-by-data-gujarat-... >> I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. With due respect, our entire country is experiencing fear, uncertainty and certainly despair. Giving voice to it is not unreasonable.

> With due respect, our entire country is experiencing fear, uncertainty and certainly despair. Giving voice to it is not unreasonable.

I totally respect and understand that. It is just that hyperbolic figures just lead to flame wars and I would rather not have it here. That's why I asked them to back it up with statistical analysis they are relying on.

Do you have any other source other than the blog you linked? I remember from Wikipedia source discussions, that the site is not a good source for news reporting, so I am going to skip opening their article.

Re: India's holiest river Ganges is swollen with Covid victims

#50

Post by statguy »

actuator wrote: post #49
avemuri wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one state's 10x. https://thewire.in/health/not-covid-stunned-by-data-gujarat-... >> I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. With due respect, our entire country is experiencing fear, uncertainty and certainly despair. Giving voice to it is not unreasonable.

> With due respect, our entire country is experiencing fear, uncertainty and certainly despair. Giving voice to it is not unreasonable. I totally respect and understand that. It is just that hyperbolic figures just lead to flame wars and I would rather not have it here. That's why I asked them to back it up with statistical analysis they are relying on. Do you have any other source other than the blog you linked? I r…

Did you even read the article? The article reports work done by an unrelated journalist who compared the death certificates issued during the same periods in 2020 and 2021 to estimate the number of excess deaths, which was 15x the number of covid-19 deaths reported by the government during the period.
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