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The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

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Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#41

Post by fao_ »

silvestrov wrote: post #22
jfoutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try cooking. The skill cap is high, it doesn't take much to make things OK, and you gotta eat. it has helped me a lot. Plenty of times I don't want to do it, but it's hard to put off for long. You can screw up a lot, and the results are still edible. Every damn meal I make has problems. Usually it's pretty good, but there are things I can do better with the output and the process. No matter the outcome, I feel better…

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

> there is no feedback loop at all.

Smell the spices before you try them out, use small amounts then taste the food while it's cooking. This works for almost anything that isn't baked. Google to find out what spices intensify through cooking (Fenugreek, Cayenne Pepper, etc.)

Also check out The Food Lab's book for information on what different things do, so you can construct a mental model of it.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#42

Post by fao_ »

wildmanx wrote: post #39
username90 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you have a good sense of how things should taste and intuition for how what you put in affected it.

And how it should taste at this stage of the process. It needs experience to try some dough and extrapolate from it how the cake/bread/... will taste after baking it. Same with many sauces, for example. Things change when mixed with pasta, potatoes, veggies, meat. A sauce is much stronger without them. If you taste it and are inexperienced you may think "just right" and the dish will end up terribly bland.

Right, so you correct that for next time? It's an iterative process, and like any skill -- it takes time.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#43

Post by danmur »

heisenzombie wrote: post #24
silvestrov wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

I think there is a lot of implicit knowledge and skill in even “basic” cooking that people tend to massively undervalue. Anyone who tells a beginner cook to “experiment” is falling for this. Beginners should copy, as fastidiously as they can!

Yeah, experimenting is the worst thing to do until you've mastered a few things like temperature, fats, amount of liquid etc. I made so many horrible experiments.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#44

Post by motohagiography »

The big difference is when you learn something as a kid, you "become," something, where as an adult, it's just another thing you do, at least until you have spent more of your life doing it than not, and few, if anyone, remember a time when you didn't.

This is a skill I've developed, and it's as difficult as anything. I've been taking lessons from masters at things for the last decade and more, and the ability to become a student as an adult is very liberating, even if the freedom has difficult moments.

The professional benefits have also been huge, since being able to bring real confidence to situations where you are not an expert is a significant leadership trait. The confidence comes from knowing your own boundaries and being able to recognize expertise in others and use it instead of trying to emmulate it. You can also recognize skill much faster.

Imagine learning to read music as an adult and asking what the names of the strings are, what the dots on the page mean, why it doesn't resemble this other thing you think you know about, and why your skill in one area doesn't import into this one. The only path forward is work and practice. I'd imagine learning to speak a new language would be similar, where your skill level is beneath that of children.

The key is to do say, "I am going to suck at this until I suck less at it." and then the huge piece is forgiving yourself the natural conceits that your adult mind/ego puts in your way, after recognizing them. To become a student means to accept vulnerability, sometimes humilitation, even shame for the things you do wrong when you realize why you do them, and then deal with them in the psychological present instead of as just being a kid who grows out of it.

You can expect it to take 5-10 years to get as good or better than most of the kids who did something growing up. Having that horizon in mind is useful because it makes the present less urgent. Start it for the challenge, but finish it for the pleasure.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#45

Post by stickfigure »

silvestrov wrote: post #22
jfoutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try cooking. The skill cap is high, it doesn't take much to make things OK, and you gotta eat. it has helped me a lot. Plenty of times I don't want to do it, but it's hard to put off for long. You can screw up a lot, and the results are still edible. Every damn meal I make has problems. Usually it's pretty good, but there are things I can do better with the output and the process. No matter the outcome, I feel better…

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

Are you experimenting with many dishes at once? Pick one you like, cook it once a week (or whatever your boredom tolerance is), and experiment with that. Try throwing in alternative spices or ingredients, varying salt amounts, cooking times, etc.

IMO, cooking is best learned one or two dishes at a time. After some experience, you'll start to get a broader picture of the art. Think of it like trying to learn "music" from scratch by picking up a different instrument each night - it could work eventually, but you're probably make better progress with a little focus.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#46

Post by imagica »

silvestrov wrote: post #22
jfoutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try cooking. The skill cap is high, it doesn't take much to make things OK, and you gotta eat. it has helped me a lot. Plenty of times I don't want to do it, but it's hard to put off for long. You can screw up a lot, and the results are still edible. Every damn meal I make has problems. Usually it's pretty good, but there are things I can do better with the output and the process. No matter the outcome, I feel better…

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

The secret to cooking is to test the food and know some basic things which may seem awkward at first but are simply learnable. Everybody who started cooking had a moment when they didn't know what they were doing and a lot of practice made them good. As a beginner I would concentrate on a few dishes and get good at those then slowly progress to more

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#47

Post by timwaagh »

silvestrov wrote: post #22
jfoutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try cooking. The skill cap is high, it doesn't take much to make things OK, and you gotta eat. it has helped me a lot. Plenty of times I don't want to do it, but it's hard to put off for long. You can screw up a lot, and the results are still edible. Every damn meal I make has problems. Usually it's pretty good, but there are things I can do better with the output and the process. No matter the outcome, I feel better…

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

Well if you know to do stuff like bake an egg there's are numerous recipes out there on YouTube & the rest of the web that are superior to what ~80% of people make.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#48

Post by benohear »

silvestrov wrote: post #22
jfoutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try cooking. The skill cap is high, it doesn't take much to make things OK, and you gotta eat. it has helped me a lot. Plenty of times I don't want to do it, but it's hard to put off for long. You can screw up a lot, and the results are still edible. Every damn meal I make has problems. Usually it's pretty good, but there are things I can do better with the output and the process. No matter the outcome, I feel better…

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

Buy a pan without a non-stick coating (eg stainless steel or enameled cast iron) and try and fry as much as you can in it.

The feedback is straightforward: If your food sticks, you've messed up. It teaches you loads about the right amount of heat and patience.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#49

Post by at_a_remove »

silvestrov wrote: post #22
jfoutz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try cooking. The skill cap is high, it doesn't take much to make things OK, and you gotta eat. it has helped me a lot. Plenty of times I don't want to do it, but it's hard to put off for long. You can screw up a lot, and the results are still edible. Every damn meal I make has problems. Usually it's pretty good, but there are things I can do better with the output and the process. No matter the outcome, I feel better…

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

Mine is bicycling. To me, a bicycle is a device built to convey me a short distance before humiliating and injuring me. I am comically bad at it, capable of flinging myself into unseen ditches and then having the bicycle land on top of me in a painful manner. Since childhood, I essentially look like one of those self-evolved neural net programs trying to propagate some kind of "vehicle" of randomly distributed wheels across a terrain: flailing, flipping upside down at the tiniest bump, hopelessly mal-adapted for the task.

Re: The Mental Benefits of Being Terrible at Something

#50

Post by jonesnc »

pmg102 wrote: post #31
silvestrov wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooking is one thing I'm terrible at: there is no feedback loop at all. No matter how much time I spend on 'experimenting', I don't get any better. Many people simple cannot fathom this. They deny the existing of any such possibility.

Absolutely the same. Some people just naturally improve when iterating on something (for me, coding is this way) while other just stay at "incompetent" forever - for me, most other activities such as DIY, playing guitar, cooking, and so on. I always fail to remember this when getting frustrated at programmers who don't seem to improve

I think this highlights the difference between practice and good practice. You won't get better at something by merely doing it over and over again. You have to practice something difficult or foundational to the skill with intention, using techniques that are designed to help you improve your skills.

For example, if you're trying to get better at playing drums, playing the same beat poorly for an hour probably won't do much. A technique like starting to play at a slow tempo and gradually speeding up, cleaning up the mistakes as you go, is a technique that can help you practice more effectively.

The same is true for programming. Implementing a simple TODO app, while a good intro problem to solve for beginners, is probably not going to make most programmers better or more knowledgable at programming.

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