Chiropractors are bullshit • Hacker News Board

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#41

Post by jt2190 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #21

What about Osteopaths?

Not to be confused with a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine in the U.S:

> There is a distinction between osteopathic physicians trained within the United States and those trained outside of the United States. Osteopathic physicians, or DOs, currently have unlimited practice rights in roughly 74 countries, with partial practice rights in many more; DOs have full practice rights in all 50 US states. As of 2018, there were more than 145,000 osteopathic physicians and osteopathic medical students in the United States.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medici...

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#42

Post by sigmaprimus » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

I hurt my back moving a friend, went to a chiropractor for two weeks. Im not sure if it wad a pinched nerve or what but the pain was excruciating when transitioning from standing to sitting and vice versa. On my 4th visit the pain was still there but the chiropractor put me on the table positined me on my side with my arms arcross my chest and knees bent and amazingly he pushed down and the pain dissapeared instantly.

So I might be an outlier but can attest that a chiropractor fixed my back pain, I was 100% pain free and never needed to go back.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#43

Post by smt88 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #23

This article is full of weak proof and elitism. If one is to go back to the 1900s to critize how the practice is formed one must remember the state of medicine. He references this but only to cast a negative light chiropractors by linking them to a time when medicine practices lack the scientific base we have now. This statement? "Who the hell peddles (real) medicine out of a kiosk" It is so elitist it out of touch.…

A friend of mine went to one of the best chiropractic schools. She said 30% of her instructional time was business classes. That told me a lot about the field.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#44

Post by ufo » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #21

What about Osteopaths?

In the USA there are real doctors with an osteopathic medicine degree. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/osteopathic-medicine-what-i...

> Essentially we need to distinguish between osteopathic medicine, which is mostly equivalent to standard medicine, and osteopathic manipulation, which is pure pseudoscience akin to straight chiropractic.

> The fact that any individual physician is a DO rather than an MD really tells us nothing. However, osteopathic medicine really should ditch the manipulation based on quaint notions of vitalism. They should also stop selling themselves as “holistic” or pretending that they invented preventive medicine.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#45

Post by knuthsat » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

grenoire wrote: post #7

whalesalad wrote: post #4

Chiropractors frustrate me because they tend to treat symptoms - not root causes. You can get 'adjusted' a million times but if you have a muscle imbalance or perpetual tightness that is pulling something out alignment you will always fall back into that state. For instance, if you sit for hours in the same funny position on your couch every night. Or if you tend to sit on one leg constantly. Or if you sleep in the s…

Dealing with this shit right now with muscle imbalances in my back on one side, chiro obviously didn't help more than 30 minutes after a session so I dropped it. Physio is a little better but it still feels very symptomatic in approach. Gonna' see if I get get an MRI scan in a third world country because nobody will afford you one in the West if it's just a wee pain with 'no cause.'

Pain is systemic. There are lot of studies collecting data and showing that people with the same physical abnormalities experience varying degrees of pain.

For example, my spine has lost its natural lordosis and is completely flattened yet I experience no pain. My mother has several disc hernias and disc protrusions along with degenerative changes due to age, no pain. She had shoulder pain and the physical issue was calcification of tendon. There are people with calcified tendons, no pain.

My father had massive back pain issues with degenerative changes of spine that don’t cause any pain to some. The moment he started fixing a systemic issue of the back being weak and sensitizing the tissue he started experiencing less pain.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#46

Post by cj » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #33

cj wrote: post #11

I come from a long lineage of chiropractors (although I’m not one). I’ve never been a big believer in the practice, and yes there are very rare cases where a chiropractic adjustment can lead to a stroke but again, it’s extremely rare. (Perhaps less rare if you’re going to the guy at the mall kiosk..) I’d like to see some scientific studies proving chiropractic adjustments are harmful. A lot of physical and mental hea…

> I’d like to see some scientific studies proving chiropractic adjustments are harmful. This is really not at all how science works. On the contrary, chiropractors should be able to prove that their methods work to a community of extremely skeptical scientists, using double-blind tests as is standard practice. At the end, it is likely mostly harmless, just like homeopathy. It may be even positive, in that receiving r…

> It may be even positive, in that receiving regular soothing attention from a bullshitter may have a good effect on your mental health

This is why I would be more interested in seeing studies showing harm than studies showing efficacy.

If it’s harmless and helps people in psychosomatic/indirect ways, I’m all for it. Especially when the alternative is going to an orthopedic doc and getting pain meds, over-eagerly prescribed surgery, etc.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#47

Post by HatchedLake721 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

What are HNers thoughts about public chiropractors that record and publish their treatments and results?

I still remember Ian Rossborough (even though he got suspended after adjusting a baby) and his famous video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpNcnM0FkTM

making a boy walk straight in 10 days.

Honest question, is this a stunt? Scam? Fake? Magic? Bullshit?

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#48

Post by NickNameNick » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

larzang wrote: post #29

candiddevmike wrote: post #5

At best, Chiropractors are bullshit. At worst, they kill or paralyze people. Their manipulations offer temporary pain relief because they forcefully mobilize the joint/bone structure. The only way to fix this long term is by correcting the muscle imbalances through physical therapy. Most people would rather get immediate pain relief vs months of therapy and exercise, so they have a constant supply of victims. Chiropr…

Some chiropractors do have the education and experience to operate as physical therapists. When I was doing competitive weight lifting, I saw a chiro who had a masters in sports medicine and had spent years as a college football trainer. He ran his office like a rehab clinic, and a lot of his clients were high school, college, and amateur athletes like me. He wasn't just popping some bones and moving on, he was worki…

Then the not snake-oil subset should abandon the label of chiropractor. Otherwise they're just giving cover to the charlatans.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#49

Post by geocrasher » Sat, May 15, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

I've lived both sides of this. I once went to a chiropractor for back issues and he made me seriously worse and it took months to recover because what he thought just needed to be put in was actually a herniated disc.

Fast forward more than a decade and I have an amazing chiropractor. Every time I go there, I walk away feeling better, walking straighter, and in less pain. My daughter also goes there and the chiropractor has helped her tremendously with various issues.

If anything I think it's a shame that the quacks and the Good Guys can share the same title. But it's the same in any profession, isn't it?

It reminds me of the joke: What do you call a med student that graduates at the bottom of his class?

Doctor.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#50

Post by ricardobayes » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

I am personally mesmerized by the aligment youtube videos. It is touching to see someone barely able to walk and after a series of adjustments able to walk normally. I didn't even knew there was a sentiment that these adjustments were 'pseudoscience'. The guys doing it seemed pretty knowledgable with X-Rays and stuff. I always thought of it as a complementary medicine.