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Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

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Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#41

Post by SirSourdough »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #36
MyHypatia wrote: post #27

A person who wrote that Bay Area women are "soft", "weak" "useless baggage" that "should be traded for shotgun shells" should not be entrusted with a position where he evaluates other people's job performance.

The article quotes one of those Bay Area woman in tech who finds her job and life "exhausting." A common affliction. Why are these strong Bay Area women so exhausted all the time?

Are you implying that men in tech in the Bay Area don’t find their jobs exhausting? There are posts by men from the Bay Area talking about burn out on HN every day.

Now imagine you are a woman in an industry dominated by men, a significant portion of whom make sly, lightly veiled sexist comments (like yours seems to be) all the time. Wouldn’t that make it even more exhausting than it is for the men?

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#42

Post by string »

I really despise the term "inclusivity". This guy seems like a prick but I wish companies would be honest about what they are doing. "Inclusivity" means getting everyone to subscribe to a narrow corporate worldview. "Diversity" is similar, it's not about diversity of thought or experience, but rather of immutable characteristics which have no inherent value.

I was recently asked to participate in a "community diversity and inclusivity survey". Not one question was concerned with freedom of expression or diversity of thought. It seems immutable characteristics are of paramount importance, or rather cynically, perhaps just the optics of their proportions are a valuable commodity. In a corporate setting neither inclusivity or diversity are at all what they purport to be.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#43

Post by meinfuhrer »

fortran77 wrote: post #32

Unlike his critics, I read his book. I enjoyed it. I'd hire him.

I think many are too quick to crucify the guy after reading a few quotes. I mean, I can see how some of those comments may be construed as misogynistic, but I would need to read the whole book to understand the context, and I'll definitely not pass judgement before doing that.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#44

Post by rasputnik6502 »

SirSourdough wrote: post #37
rasputnik6502 wrote: post #22

Something bad is happening to companies, they become full of shit because of nothing. Isn't there a difference between expressing unpopular opinions and actually abusing or attacking people? Or thoughtcrime is becoming punishable? Someone is working hard on adding fuel to misogyny

Since when can you not judge a person on what they write in a published book? This isn’t “crime”, nobody is claiming it’s illegal. But it’s still sexist and flat out wrong to essentially say that most women are worthless, and it’s perfectly reasonable not to want to work with or for someone who demonstrates such sexist thinking and poor judgement.

You can judge as much as you want. But organizing a mob with pitchforks to attack the author and teach them a lesson is not exactly harmless. Or your 'judging' is more like 'lynching'

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#45

Post by mgamache »

zozbot234 wrote: post #39
mgamache wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just pointing out the myopic hypocrisy of the complaint. Also, women are not a minority group, but I would say that if he's hired to do a job at a company he should be held to the same standards as any other employee. If he acts in ways that are outside the standards set by the company he should be fired. If the company rules don't allow for sexism, there will be none enabled. I think pre-screening employees ba…

Women are a minority of workers at most tech firms.

Right, men are a minority in many fields (like Biology) but you would not call them a 'minority' group.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#46

Post by ceph_ »

legostormtroopr wrote: post #12

This was buried in the article, but James Danmore is racist now. > notorious ex-Googler James Damore, who suggest this is because women and people of color lack the innate qualities needed to succeed in tech. It seems that people just keep tacking on “sins” to see what sticks to people’s reputations regardless of the facts. Was there anything in Danmores article that even mentioned people of color?

His doc repeatedly said programs that are aimed at a helping women and people of color should be ended. And that diversity of gender and race should not be a goal. I don't think it's a big leap.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#47

Post by chubbyish »

As usual, it’s taken out of context.

He is comparing Bay Area girls to a girl he was sleeping with whose family moved here from Russia when she was a teenager and who “had spent years backpacking through jobs in rougher parts of the world”.

This is the reference to “worldliness”.

Being raised in the Bay Area compared to the experience of a family descended from Russia is of course going to result in a different upbringing and personality.

I don’t think this is hard to argue with unless you are naive to history and have not spoken to those who lives through 20th century Eastern Europe.

Ironic, as the lack of “worldliness” that those refute, is the same quality that prevents them from appreciating the sentiment in the quote.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#48

Post by tomnipotent »

Udik wrote: post #38
tomnipotent wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So women should be forced to work under a known misogynist, their salary and promotions tied to a boss that thinks them inferior and has literally published a book saying so? Yeah, there are no examples of that going poorly.

> women should be forced to work under a known misogynist How do you know he's a misogynist? You read a small, absolutely marginal excerpt from a book that is clearly written in a literary style. In it, he draws a comparison between a particular woman, who is praised for her talent and resourcefulness, and "most Bay Area women", who are definitely not all women, in the Bay Area and much less in general. "Most America…

Did you consider that I've read the book?

Here's my favorite review from Goodreads 2016:

"Pretentious, pseudo-intellectual misogynist pontificates about his theories on tech business, society, and capitalism while sneering at every other human with Olympian contempt and making unacceptable sexist comments about women for about 500 pages."

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#49

Post by SamReidHughes »

SirSourdough wrote: post #41
SamReidHughes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article quotes one of those Bay Area woman in tech who finds her job and life "exhausting." A common affliction. Why are these strong Bay Area women so exhausted all the time?

Are you implying that men in tech in the Bay Area don’t find their jobs exhausting? There are posts by men from the Bay Area talking about burn out on HN every day. Now imagine you are a woman in an industry dominated by men, a significant portion of whom make sly, lightly veiled sexist comments (like yours seems to be) all the time. Wouldn’t that make it even more exhausting than it is for the men?

Maybe they'd be less exhausted if they focused on doing their job instead of complaining about men. People with some level of capability aren't the ones worried about being considered weak or useless and whining in public about how they are exhausted as if twitter was some kind of personal pity party.

But what do I know, I live in SoCal. Which, I've observed, has more high quality women per capita than the Bay Area. I think it's because of the beaches.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#50

Post by SirSourdough »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #44
SirSourdough wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when can you not judge a person on what they write in a published book? This isn’t “crime”, nobody is claiming it’s illegal. But it’s still sexist and flat out wrong to essentially say that most women are worthless, and it’s perfectly reasonable not to want to work with or for someone who demonstrates such sexist thinking and poor judgement.

You can judge as much as you want. But organizing a mob with pitchforks to attack the author and teach them a lesson is not exactly harmless. Or your 'judging' is more like 'lynching'

Saying that a person shouldn’t be hired into a prominent position where they will likely manage women on the basis that that person has said women are worthless is nothing like lynching.
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