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Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

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Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#41

> Why do americans think that the US won WW2 in Europe? If you were British you would know the real truth from the 24/7 repeats of WW2 documentaries that Churchill won WW2

Not sure why that would be the case. A lot of Brits understand that while Britain survived WW2 it was the US that came out strong and helped to end WW2 compared to any other nation on earth (except Soviet Union) with not only technology dominance but also economic and in many ways cultural.

This also has a personal bias as I want the US to be remembered and not the UK who I think has done so much damage around the world pre WW2 in the name of colonialism including my home country.

Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#42
It's funny, when I studied abroad in Russia people of all ages asked me this question incessantly and indignantly. It was almost like an article of faith for many people I met there that America has always denied the USSR's role in beating the Nazis. Never quite understood why so many Russians think this, but my guess is that it comes from watching state TV.

Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#43

The opinion in France reversed after reconstruction. Immediately after V-E, there was a strong opinion that the Soviets did the most to win the war: https://www.france24.com/en/20190601-who-won-wwii-russias-ro...

What about lend-lease?

Lend lease was a serious part of it but 10-15% of the USSR's output is no match for 90-85% of the Soviet output plus 20 million lives.

The US still did however a lot to help.

Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#44

Because it sort of did in that they provided support for UK and even the USSR that might have tipped the balance, not to mention operations in Africa. But really it's because there was a deliberate and concerted effort to erase the USSR's role in defeating the Nazis in western europe, after say 1960. Through public education, and general coverage in medias/fil/documentaries. The US cultural hegemony is real :) It sta…

> The US cultural hegemony is real

Looking back at my childhood growing up in a small NATO country (The Netherlands), it really strikes me. I found a box of my childhood drawings at my parents place. I’d drawn soldiers and fighter jets etcetera and they mostly had US flags. Some kind of militaristic nationalism is common in many places I guess but apparently I had grown up emotionally attached to the US military.

> Through public education, and general coverage in medias/fil/documentaries.

On children’s television, every year I’d see interviews with the American and Canadian soldiers that liberated the Netherlands. Which of course is important but… I watched an item on Auschwitz were they managed to talk about the history and liberation of the camp for twenty minutes without ever mentioning the country that the liberating soldiers came from.

Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#45
post #3

Would the USSR have won against Germany if the US was not involved? And what if the US joined the Axis powers in the war?

Just because some specific act tips the scales doesn't make it the sole reason for win. One soldier tipping the battle isn't the (only, or main) winner.

That's not about US involvement, just your specific argument. Coming form Eastern Europe, we were liberated by Soviet army, Americans never touched our soil. But it was a brutal liberation, and what came afterwards was even worse.

Russians bled the most, killed the most. They wouldn't probably win if left on their own though for reasons stated by others. And that's purely Europe. Add Pacific and rest of the world and the role of US is undeniable. How difficult is it to accept that there is no single state who can claim the throne, only a joint force.

More interesting question for me is, if Japanese wouldn't do Pearl Harbor, how long it would take US to engage with Nazi Germany. Maybe far too long, US wasn't very keen to start open war. Maybe a critical window would be missed and invasion could be a failure.

Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#47
The issue is that Russia's liberation of Eastern Europe was incredibly traumatizing to the domestic populations.

You had systematic mass rapes on a bewildering scale. As in, every single female from city X was raped. See this article: "They raped very german woman from age 8 to 80" (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features1...).

And it was not just German women. Similar things happened in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania (http://www.globeatwar.com/article/red-armys-rape-europe) These reports would filter into diplomats in the West and they were so shocking no one believed it at first, and it was downplayed in the West but citizens from these countries remember. In addition to the scale ("almost no woman in Hungary was spared") is the blindness of the attacks. Everyone was a target. Especially shocking were the rapes of emaciated concentration camp survivors -- who had just been liberated by the Red Army! Often after the rape the women were shot and many committed suicides. Russian prisoners freed from German PoW camps were raped by Red Army units they encountered as they made their way back to Russia.

There was also extensive looting -- organized, systematic looting of people's household treasures, watches, clothes, shoes, etc. Soldiers breaking into homes, raping the women, stealing any currency or valuables. Then moving onto the next home. Block by block, city by city, across all europe. The native population quickly learned it was not safe to leave your home wearing a watch.

And of course that was followed by systematic political oppression, arrest of political enemies or those who were "tainted" by the West, including ordinary soldiers or aviators who committed the crime of flying with the RAF or with free French forces (https://www.wingsinexile.co.uk/clanky/return-communist-perse...) -- these were all jailed, de-personed, and hounded by authorities for the rest of their lives as being politically tainted. Remember some of these were national heroes. And that was followed by a series of coups in which the communist parties assassinated their opponents and seized power.

Bottom line, Eastern Europe has very mixed feelings about being "liberated" by the USSR, whereas Western Europe has much more positive memories of being liberated by the West, and so it's more a matter of one side celebrating while the other would prefer to not remember those events at all.

Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#49
post #3

Would the USSR have won against Germany if the US was not involved? And what if the US joined the Axis powers in the war?

Maybe also: Would the US have won against Germany if the USSR was not involved?

Please do recall that the USSR was effectively on the same side as Germany for the first two years of the war.

Re: Why do people think that the US won WW2 in Europe?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the US don't even say that..... thats the primary one considered a loss.

In the US people don't discuss that. The idea is that if nobody remembers, they won't know that the war was lost.

My experience has been different.

It was a wildly unpopular war with poor people being sent into a meat grinder.

And its the one with the pervasive urban legend about returning soldiers being spat on.

Vietnam is still a single-party state run by a self titled Communist Party that follows Marxist teachings while adopting the more modern state-capitalist approach. This is the opposite of American values and the exact outcome the Americans were there to prevent. Although the consequences have been largely muted.

I also see memes about it almost every day. I saw a video on instagram about Muhammad Ali talking about the absurdity of people being sent into that war.

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