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Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

rome.tools

41–50 of 90 posts

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#41
I had a quick look at how they are set up and I like what they are doing from the point of view of actually creating an OSS community. I don't actually know much about what they do as I'm not one of their users. Judging this purely from a "does this make sense as an OSS company" point of view.

- License: MIT. Great pragmatic choice. Generally a good fit for not obstructing your users to actually use, copying, modifying, etc. your code. Too many OSS startups play games with this and end up going for something too restrictive. IMHO not having copyright transfers is the key to longevity for any OSS community. It basically progressively removes re-licensing as an option as more contributors would have to agree to such a thing. Most long lived oss projects have long lists of contributors and no history of license changes past an early stage of their development. Also, MIT is very compatible with just about anything in the ecosystem. Given their stated goal of being good OSS citizens, that's a hard requirement.

- Contributing.md: no mention of copyright transfers. Also they have close to twenty contributors. I assume this means the license will stay as it is and there are no plans to change that. Great! This is key to building a successful open source community with people actually contributing as well as using the code. It also ensures the code can survive acquisitions, bankruptcies, mismanagement of the company, etc. Committing to this upfront is important and a big step.

- Community: There are seventeen contributors, most of which are not employees (I assume). And they probably integrate a lot of other libraries/tools.

- Explicit stated goal that affirms the above: "The company exists to support the open source project, not the other way around.".

That does raise a few question marks around valuation and ways to profit from this. I'm curious about their plans for adding value in the form of services on top of this. I assume this means some cloud based services and/or support contracts with consultancy. But then, it's good to remove the nuclear option (relicensing) from the table early on to create clarity for developers and investors that this is just not that sort of company.

It's smart from a business point of view as well because most of what they do will come from outside the company anyway. The nature of the javascript community is people rapidly iterating on tools, libraries, etc. and forking left right and center as needed. So, a lot of value is going to be added through people doing exactly that. You can work with them or against them. With them is the smarter option.

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#42
Being written in TypeScript and not Rust seems quite a big liability that might see Rome never be popular or lose out quickly due to inferior performance.

There is already RSLint and SWC as JavaScript tools written in Rust and I would expect such tools to take over, with a good choice of it happening before Rome is ready.

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#43
post #42

Being written in TypeScript and not Rust seems quite a big liability that might see Rome never be popular or lose out quickly due to inferior performance. There is already RSLint and SWC as JavaScript tools written in Rust and I would expect such tools to take over, with a good choice of it happening before Rome is ready.

no, much worse. they might actually win by overspending on marketing and feature-bloat, and we’ll be stuck working with slow tools

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#44
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy skepticism is good. Dev tools are hard. There are hundreds of open source companies - many making gobs of money. Not all - many fail. This team has name recognition and a few successful projects already - Babel and yarn. I can see it working out. JavaScript is one of the most popular programming languages. Millions of developers. With solid execution, there are monstrous markets here.

this team also has had at least one example of unilateral non-open source decisionmaking https://www.vice.com/en/article/pawnwv/open-source-devs-reve...

Is it a given that because the software is open-source, the decision-making will be, too? Almost seems there should be a separate set of claims for what the decision-making process will be (like how there are various software licenses).

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#45

Disclaimer: I know the foundation of Rome was largely written by Sebastian. This question still applies to Rome though, but more so to “open source companies” in general. https://rome.tools/credits/ How many of these people are going to receive an employment opportunity from this company? How many will receive equity? I suppose the same questions can be asked if any big project, like React, though that had FB’s backi…

[deleted]

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#46
This feels like a new version of Brunch.

Did anyone use Brunch to build and bundle JS projects and manage dependencies? It seemed like the best thing since slice-bread at the time.

I recently had to go back and update a 6-year-old project that had been written using Brunch. It took several days of painful work to extract it all out of the framework and built it using Babel.

All I'd want to know with Rome is, if and when I abandon it or it gets abandoned (whichever happens first), how annoyed am I going to be that I had chosen this framework? How seamless will it be to extract my project?

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#47

Disclaimer: I know the foundation of Rome was largely written by Sebastian. This question still applies to Rome though, but more so to “open source companies” in general. https://rome.tools/credits/ How many of these people are going to receive an employment opportunity from this company? How many will receive equity? I suppose the same questions can be asked if any big project, like React, though that had FB’s backi…

I've been keeping the core contributor team updated on the funding process since December. We've also been publicly speaking about it in the Rome Discord server too. I posted about securing funding in early April in #general.

Emanuele and Yasser both approached us during this period to offer their interest in joining and have stayed actively involved in development.

It's a good question around how to compensate the shoulders of the giants you're standing on, and I don't think anyone has a good answer for that. I think it's important to note that the credits page is meant to be as exhaustive as possible. I am not aware of many other projects that have something similar, and theirs are likely to be even longer.

In the end the community is getting value because we'll now be able to do more to improve the project than we otherwise would have. Babel most notably has struggled for funding and is even currently undergoing a serious funding shortage. It has been used as one of the poster children for the JS community and it's clear that donation-based funding isn't effective, at least on the order of magnitude required to support a team.

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#48
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy skepticism is good. Dev tools are hard. There are hundreds of open source companies - many making gobs of money. Not all - many fail. This team has name recognition and a few successful projects already - Babel and yarn. I can see it working out. JavaScript is one of the most popular programming languages. Millions of developers. With solid execution, there are monstrous markets here.

> There are hundreds of open source companies - many making gobs of money. [citation needed] It seems there may be many open source companies with tons of users, but they seem to struggle with monetization and turning those users into paying users. Redhat which used to be the epitome of a company making money from open source got acquired by IBM. A lot of other open source companies are switching to non-open source l…

Even though a company's software might be open source, the company does own the intellectual property of the open source project. It chooses what license under which the software should be offered and has the freedom to commercially exploit the software in ways that nobody else can.

That being said, a compiler toolchain is not so easily monetized as something like Grafana, which has obvious enterprise features that need filling in and which can be hosted as a cloud service, generating revenue that way.

I imagine the team has ideas for monetization, otherwise they would not have raised $4.5M from some top shelf venture capitalists. I would like to know what those ideas are.

Re: Announcing Rome Tools, Inc.

#50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this team also has had at least one example of unilateral non-open source decisionmaking https://www.vice.com/en/article/pawnwv/open-source-devs-reve...

Is it a given that because the software is open-source, the decision-making will be, too? Almost seems there should be a separate set of claims for what the decision-making process will be (like how there are various software licenses).

From the article:

> Eric Raymond, the founder of the Open Source Initiative and one of the authors of the standard-bearing Open Source Definition, said Kyle’s decision violated the fifth clause of the definition, which prohibits discrimination against people or groups.

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