Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 220 posts

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#41

Post by nightski »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #29

I think its totally fine for a car maker to charge for OTA updates in a Saas/subscription model. The reality is that software requires long term maintenance and charging subscriptions is the only way to get a lot of the features to work out for the life time of the car. What I am NOT ok with is charging for normal things that do not need to be OTA updated or are not upgrades, like apple carplay (the example in the ar…

If the software in a car requires long term maintenance beyond the extremely rare bug fix update, then it does too much imho. That's the point, keep it very simple. I don't need an entertainment system, maps, games, or any of that crap. Just an aux port or bluetooth with audio output. Maybe an am/fm radio at most.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#43

Post by falcolas »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #29

I think its totally fine for a car maker to charge for OTA updates in a Saas/subscription model. The reality is that software requires long term maintenance and charging subscriptions is the only way to get a lot of the features to work out for the life time of the car. What I am NOT ok with is charging for normal things that do not need to be OTA updated or are not upgrades, like apple carplay (the example in the ar…

> charging subscriptions is the only way to get a lot of the features to work out for the life time of the car.

No, no, no. I'm purchasing a car for upwards of $30,000 (and it's always more, between dealer fees, the cars just happening to only have the priciest interiors, salesmen and their pushy pitches, interest on loans, etc.); they don't need another $5 a month for fucking software updates.

They can mange it today just fine (my car desires a wi-fi connection so it can get these updates), they're just being greedy if they charge.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#44

Post by caddywompus »

radioooooo wrote: post #37
obviouslynotme wrote: post #2

I don't want my car to be a software platform. I want it to be like my microwave. It might have software, but software is only incidental to its operation. I do not want to tweet from my microwave. I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. I don't care what I have to do to attain that. If that means replacing the radio. I will do it. If you brick my car if I don't have a Manufactu…

> I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. LMAO! OK, who's gonna tell him about the ads on the radio?

Radio ads can:

- be turned off by turning off the radio - are not inherent to the operation of the vehicle

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#45

Post by Hammershaft »

obviouslynotme wrote: post #2

I don't want my car to be a software platform. I want it to be like my microwave. It might have software, but software is only incidental to its operation. I do not want to tweet from my microwave. I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. I don't care what I have to do to attain that. If that means replacing the radio. I will do it. If you brick my car if I don't have a Manufactu…

Its interesting that we have created a world where the people who build software are often the most skeptical of and aviodant of the software industry.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#46

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #38
thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #4

It is only a matter of time before there are jailbreaks and free / open source car operating systems. For related 'food for thought', see Cory Doctorow's "Car Wars" which combines car software hacking with self-driving vehicles for a unique near-future sci-fi story. Edit: downvotes? Instead, you could respond with why you disagree and we can have a discussion. Do you think there will not be jailbreaks? It has been ha…

Voiding the warranty of your phone is one thing, but on your car? What if it voids the insurance?

That depends on the terms of the insurance.

Does car insurance prevent car owners from doing their own maintenance or modifications?

Does the car insurance require the car owner to only go to specific shops / dealerships for repairs?

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#47

Post by BiteCode_dev »

Traster wrote: post #36
obviouslynotme wrote: post #2

I don't want my car to be a software platform. I want it to be like my microwave. It might have software, but software is only incidental to its operation. I do not want to tweet from my microwave. I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. I don't care what I have to do to attain that. If that means replacing the radio. I will do it. If you brick my car if I don't have a Manufactu…

The problem is that you're not going to have this choice. You'll be that guy insisting he wants a phone that's thicker but has better battery life - no manufacturer cares what you want because they have to operate at a scale where they can't cater for niches.

I'm not so sure.

Look at the European market: manual gears everywhere. Look at the UK, South African and Autraslian market: the car is inversed, with the wheel on the right.

The car market seems way different than the phone market. It's not an information platform, it moves matter. It's not virtual, it's real. It's not luxury like the phone used to be, people life depends on it already. It's not a free market, but heavily regulated.

And a car is very, very expensive. Second hand is a huge thing. You don't replace your car every 2 years. The market for maintenance and service is it's own industry, and the state is deep in it. Not to mention the the huge quantity of material you need just to build one car.

Finally, if a car fails, a BSOD becomes quite literal.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#48

Post by obviouslynotme »

radioooooo wrote: post #37
obviouslynotme wrote: post #2

I don't want my car to be a software platform. I want it to be like my microwave. It might have software, but software is only incidental to its operation. I do not want to tweet from my microwave. I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. I don't care what I have to do to attain that. If that means replacing the radio. I will do it. If you brick my car if I don't have a Manufactu…

> I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. LMAO! OK, who's gonna tell him about the ads on the radio?

Classic radio is down-only. It goes through hardware for demodulation and amplification. I can turn a classic radio off.

How long will it be until there is an ad that makes it confusing how to dismiss it and uses a police siren to get your attention? How long until someone uses the radio to ransomware your car using a remote code execution vulnerability?

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#49

Post by BiteCode_dev »

obviouslynotme wrote: post #26
lostlogin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not want ads in traffic. This is non-negotiable for safety reasons alone. I know it’s what you want but is it preventable? What’s the difference when today there are LED screens across the intersection you are trying to navigate that are intensely bright and displaying moving images? I’d argue that dimmer images in the car would be less distracting. However we appear on track to get both these dismal options.…

It has nothing to do with flashing images, which I do not tolerate in my car either. It has to do with ads themselves, which have always walked the line between interactivity and malware. I don't want someone to be able to run arbitrary code on my car for $0.0004. No way. Could you imagine ransomware on your CAR? While you are driving in it?? No thank you.

Cars should not be connected to internet, period. If you want some component to be able to be part of the car and connected, it should be hardware that is physically not linked to the car system itself in any way.

And you should not be able to issue OTA without some manual hardware operation, like turning a key somewhere that is far from the wheel.

Re: Cars are about to be a software platform, subscriptions and all

#50

Post by Krisjohn »

marcodiego wrote: post #3

You don't own your cellphone, you don't own your tv and now you won't own your car too.

I own my cellphone, because it doesn't run iOS or Android.

I own my TV, because the house's DNS is forced through pihole and the apps can't upgrade unless I want them to.

I own my car, because it's the kind with no touch screen, no untouchable black box running it. (I miss my first car, released the same year as the C64.)

Post reply on HN