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FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

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Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#41

Post by [deleted] »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #21
ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

Yeah, I'm sympathetic to the government wanting to protect the health of folks (or if you're a cynic like me, making sure that citizens are productive for longer and don't use as many healthcare resources) but this feels super paternalistic. Why not just dramatically increase the taxes so people can still choose to pay a high price if they want to?

[deleted]

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#42

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #11
benjohnson wrote: post #5

Frankly this seems paternalistic. It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: "We found something non-white people enjoy and we're going to ruin it. For their own good."

New Zealand has an age requirement for tobacco, and has also (edit: proposed) to ban sales of it entirely based on birth year (2004 and forward) to phase out its consumption. I’d say this doesn’t go far enough. We’ve known for over half a century the damage tobacco consumption does to a person’s body. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-ai...

Same with Alcohol no? Same with burning and inhaling Cannabis no?

>but we should let folks kill themselves slowly with tobacco?

This is a very slippery slope. It's possible to responsibly smoke, just like it's possible to responsibly consume foods high in sugar.

Of course, people want to ban(or hate tax) sugar/high fat foods as well, so perhaps this is what you'd like to have happen.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#43

Post by bmmayer1 »

These policies are almost always celebrated on the basis of the goal of the policy but not the reality of the enforcement. What happens when someone gets busted with a menthol cigarette? Or, worse yet, selling a "loosie" menthol on the street, much like Eric Garner did?

Is it possible that maybe there's a connection between over regulating people's choices and over policing peoples' lives?

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#44

Post by dcolkitt »

benjohnson wrote: post #5

Frankly this seems paternalistic. It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: "We found something non-white people enjoy and we're going to ruin it. For their own good."

I’d like to imagine an alternative universe where the federal government bans wood burning fireplaces. After all fireplaces produce an enormous quantity of indoor air pollution, and sitting by a fire for the night is about the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes.

How would this policy proposal be received? My guess is that the public would be up in arms and decry the move as ridiculous government over reach.

The only operative difference between this and the menthol ban is that fireplaces are associated with rich people living in upscale houses. The thought experiment tells me that at some level we’re more willing to force paternalism on low status poor people.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#46

Post by jfk13 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #11
benjohnson wrote: post #5

Frankly this seems paternalistic. It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: "We found something non-white people enjoy and we're going to ruin it. For their own good."

New Zealand has an age requirement for tobacco, and has also (edit: proposed) to ban sales of it entirely based on birth year (2004 and forward) to phase out its consumption. I’d say this doesn’t go far enough. We’ve known for over half a century the damage tobacco consumption does to a person’s body. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-ai...

> has also started to ban sales of it entirely based on birth year (2004 and forward)

"has started to" may not be quite correct; it sounds to me like this is a proposal that is being considered.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#48

Post by leetcrew »

vvanpo wrote: post #7

On the one hand, I understand that complete prohibition for drugs and alcohol just don't work. But I have a difficult time squaring that against my feelings towards tobacco, where I feel it would be so much easier for me to quit if I wasn't tempted by its availability at every corner store.

I oppose prohibition for the moral reason that adults ought to be allowed to make these choices for themselves and the practical reason that it doesn't seem to work well anyway. but that's a fair point. this might actually be a good use case for zoning. imo the happy medium is "manufacturers are allowed to sell X, as long as they make it as safe as it intrinsically can be" and "you're allowed to buy X, but you might have to go out of your way to do it". people that want to avoid X or pretend it doesn't exist would have that option too.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#49

Post by aidenn0 »

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder if there’s ever been a study comparing the effects of banning compared to ultra high taxation of products. I understand that there are groups that are negatively affected but is banning even effective in improving health outcomes in this case? In my imaginary world the tax would be extremely high and diverted to things in the same area that have the opposite effect: e.g make cheeseburgers more expensive and…

At a certain point of taxation, banning is more effective because it's much harder to tell if you have an untaxed menthol cigarette than to tell if you have a menthol cigarette.

So tax evasion becomes a limiting factor in such taxes.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#50

Post by timClicks »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #21
ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

Yeah, I'm sympathetic to the government wanting to protect the health of folks (or if you're a cynic like me, making sure that citizens are productive for longer and don't use as many healthcare resources) but this feels super paternalistic. Why not just dramatically increase the taxes so people can still choose to pay a high price if they want to?

Because addicts are not price sensitive.
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