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Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

span.health

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Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#41

Post by wing-_-nuts »

blakesterz wrote: post #3

They close with this: However, a more critical review[0] of the epidemiological data that took into account genetic variants which impact the effect of alcohol intake on longevity shows that the described J-shaped relationship is not as robust as once thought. In conclusion the review simply states: The optimal level of alcohol intake for health and longevity is zero [0] https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/49/3/3…

>The optimal level of alcohol intake for health and longevity is zero

This is the conclusion of the most recent lancet study on alcohol and health. However, the lancet study comingles societal and personal health affects, which I find annoying (drunk driving, increased violence, etc)

From everything that I've read, alcohol has a j-curve benefit to cardio health, and a j curve detriment to cancer rates. When you look at mortality rates vs alcohol consumption, the J part of the curve doesn't return to 'tee-totaler' non drinker baseline until you're at ~ 4 drinks a day, which is a lot.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#42

Post by 1_player »

OT: "Heart Rate Variability (HRV) gives us an idea about the state of our autonomic nervous system"

This answered a big medical doubt I have had for the past week.

For ages my heart rate has been at a stable 95-105 resting BPM with very little variability, which is quite high and understandable given my low fitness. I've recently radically changed my diet, and in 2 weeks my resting BPM has gone down to around 65 (!), changing rapidly up to 100 BPM if I move unless I'm staying completely still.

I was unsure of what this radical change meant, but apparently whatever I was doing before was very bad for me, and whatever I'm doing now is much better. Given that my diet change has also put my anxiety in remission, it makes sense that there's a strong connection between less overstimulation in the brain and more relaxed circulatory system.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#43

Post by tw04 »

blunte wrote: post #7
cutthegrass2 wrote: post #2

The article briefly mentions RHR (resting heart rate) also. Anecdotally of course, but I notice my RHR being ~5 - 8 bpm lower when I abstain from alcohol for a few days.

I have worn a Garmin watch with HR monitor for months at a time off and on for the last few years. My resting heart rate while sleeping is typically 64-68 without alcohol and 65-85 after drinking several glasses of wine. There is such a marked difference in RHR in the two scenarios that you could tell if I drank simply by looking at my heart rate chart during the night. Interestingly, I attempted to start running for…

It just means you're out of shape and as you get into shape your HR reflects it. I saw similar after "summer of covid" and now getting back to running every day and limiting alcohol to once a week.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#45

Post by ska »

serverholic wrote: post #14
blakesterz wrote: post #3

They close with this: However, a more critical review[0] of the epidemiological data that took into account genetic variants which impact the effect of alcohol intake on longevity shows that the described J-shaped relationship is not as robust as once thought. In conclusion the review simply states: The optimal level of alcohol intake for health and longevity is zero [0] https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/49/3/3…

Epidemiology strikes again! I watch a lot of videos on nutrition and researchers often say that randomized control trials are too expensive so we need to rely on epidemiology despite its flaws. What I find crazy is that nations around the world collaborate and spend billions of dollars building a particle accelerator and yet we can't seem to find money to research something that affects every human every day of their…

To be fair, particle physics is a lot easier. Your argument holds in terms of investment though, if not in terms of expected outcome.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#46

Post by JohnWhigham »

intergalplan wrote: post #35
mathattack wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been largely alcohol free since the new year. Prior to that I thought alcohol helped me rest. Now even one or two glasses of beer or wine messes up my sleep. The contrast helps me understand it better. Of course this anecdote shouldn’t be construed as robust data....

I've been working on switching most drinking for weed—for health reasons. Seriously. It's the best and lowest-side-effect sleep aid I've used. Hopefully it's not secretly doing horrible things to me, but my sleep quality's been amazing since I started to take a little a couple nights a week. Most consistently-decent sleep of my life.

Weed inhibits REM sleep. You may feel rested, but you're actually harming yourself long term.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#47

Post by Mordisquitos »

aksss wrote: post #31
herdcall wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a non sequitur ("The optimal level of alcohol intake for health and longevity is zero"). All I see in the article you referred (or the original article above) are several (valid) questions about the J shaped association, like confounding factors and survival bias. But these aren't evidence that the optimal level is zero. Merely challenging/speculating about the opposite view is not evidence. Also, as…

For any benefit alcohol gives (heart health, stress level, etc), there are healthier alternatives to accomplish the same or better results.

I'm sure that there are many alternatives that would be healthier than alcohol for any given individual, be it exercise, social and economic stability, CBT, vacation, improved diet, better sleep, etc. However, in societies where alcohol consumption is an engrained feature of ordinary life and social interactions, is it even feasible to encourage every person to implement whichever of the myriad of alternatives would be more effective for them?

I would argue that, at the public health level, focusing on a naïve "zero level" of alcohol in favour of the "better alternatives" would at best be ineffective, not the least because the better alternatives can be promoted regardless of alcohol consumption. At worst they could even be harmful, if the encouraged abstinence were to discourage the social events associated with non-excessive alcohol consumption.

On an individual level yes indeed, having 0 beers a week may be provably healthier than having 10 beers a week, all else being equal. And that's the crucial point—all else being equal. Those beers are not drunk in isolation or without context. The individual may enjoy trying craft beer with their partner at dinner, or they may meet some friends at the pub and enjoy some slightly disinhibited laughs together. Could this person enjoy trying herbal teas with their partner? Perhaps. Could their friends meet up for a game of volleyball instead? Maybe. Is it realistic to expect similar alternatives to alcohol in the overall population? Very probably not.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#48

Post by intergalplan »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #46
intergalplan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working on switching most drinking for weed—for health reasons. Seriously. It's the best and lowest-side-effect sleep aid I've used. Hopefully it's not secretly doing horrible things to me, but my sleep quality's been amazing since I started to take a little a couple nights a week. Most consistently-decent sleep of my life.

Weed inhibits REM sleep. You may feel rested, but you're actually harming yourself long term.

Damnit. Well, it's that or lots of 5-6 hour nights, or worse. Or bad hangovers and other weird shit from sleeping pills. Maybe time to get a sleep-tracker watch.

Re: Surprisingly little alcohol can affect heart rate variability

#49

Post by FredPret »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #47
aksss wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any benefit alcohol gives (heart health, stress level, etc), there are healthier alternatives to accomplish the same or better results.

I'm sure that there are many alternatives that would be healthier than alcohol for any given individual, be it exercise, social and economic stability, CBT, vacation, improved diet, better sleep, etc. However, in societies where alcohol consumption is an engrained feature of ordinary life and social interactions, is it even feasible to encourage every person to implement whichever of the myriad of alternatives would…

I worried about this a lot before I quit drinking.

Now I can tell you that my social life is exactly the same as before - but I’m drinking water or near-beer or something fizzy instead. I don’t care, my friends don’t care, and if they did, they wouldn’t count as friends anyway.

Now if you’re a frat member, maybe it’s different.

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