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Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#41

Post by joshmanders »

cipher_system wrote: post #5
realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

I always assumed they would be available as long as Apple or iTunes doesn't go under. Guess i'm not a reasonable consumer but luckily I haven't spent much money on them.

I've spent a lot of money on iTunes content (Nearing 1,000 purchased movies on AppleTV), and my assumption was the same. As long as Apple/iTunes doesn't go under, and given I don't do anything to violate Apple's terms, I will have access to this content.

I understand I can lose access, I'm not paying for the content in the idea that I own it forever even if Apple goes under or I get terminated, but I have perpetual access to it given the circumstances don't change, and I pay for the convenience of this.

If I had expected to own it forever, I'd probably have bought DVD's, not digital.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#42

Post by tehwebguy »

bityard wrote: post #23

I hate to be so cynical, but here's exactly how this is going to play out, or I'll eat my hat: 1. Apple and Amazon will add language to their Terms and Conditions stating that regardless of the phrasing on their websites and apps, access to the media that customers purchase will be revoked if their account is terminated. And since it's in the agreement, it's binding: in general, you can't sue to get out of a contract…

You are almost certainly correct. It is not right or fair but it is probably legally defensible.

In the US, without legislation we rely on the contracts we sign. When we sign contracts with trillion dollar companies we don’t get to negotiate.

(I think this issue is related to right to repair, which is continuing to gain steam and might be a good effort to join forces with.)

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#44

Post by alisonkisk »

Diggsey wrote: post #17

IMO it wouldn't matter if they'd used the word "Rent" or "Licence" instead: it would still be unreasonable. Account termination is entirely at Apple's discretion, meaning the term of your "rental" is not known when you actually pay for the content. For most people the term will be "forever", so that is the expectation. It's simple: if apple want to terminate your account, they need to refund you for any content you l…

Or at least downgrade your "purchases" to "rental" price.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#45

Post by tartoran »

I understood this thing long time ago and removed my credit card from my account to resist tempation of buying stuff. I briefly added it back to purchase an app or two I really couldn’t do without. As far as media goes I have none on my Iphone.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#46

Post by [deleted] »

gambiting wrote: post #34
bityard wrote: post #23

I hate to be so cynical, but here's exactly how this is going to play out, or I'll eat my hat: 1. Apple and Amazon will add language to their Terms and Conditions stating that regardless of the phrasing on their websites and apps, access to the media that customers purchase will be revoked if their account is terminated. And since it's in the agreement, it's binding: in general, you can't sue to get out of a contract…

In general, contracts can say literally whatever they want, and it doesn't mean they will stand up in court. If the court agrees that Apple selling $25k worth of stuff and denying access to it isn't "fair", then it isn't fair, end of story, regardless of what the contract says. The court might of course disagree, but you can't be certain until the case happens. I do however believe that Apple will just settle this ou…

[deleted]

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#47

Post by alisonkisk »

tehwebguy wrote: post #42
bityard wrote: post #23

I hate to be so cynical, but here's exactly how this is going to play out, or I'll eat my hat: 1. Apple and Amazon will add language to their Terms and Conditions stating that regardless of the phrasing on their websites and apps, access to the media that customers purchase will be revoked if their account is terminated. And since it's in the agreement, it's binding: in general, you can't sue to get out of a contract…

You are almost certainly correct. It is not right or fair but it is probably legally defensible. In the US, without legislation we rely on the contracts we sign. When we sign contracts with trillion dollar companies we don’t get to negotiate. (I think this issue is related to right to repair, which is continuing to gain steam and might be a good effort to join forces with.)

That's why we have laws about "contracts of adhesion" that limit the one-sided news of contracts. The law has a general protection against "unconscionable" contracts, to be decided by judge or jury.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#48

Post by joshmanders »

l-lousy wrote: post #30
oblio wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just force all these vendors to relabel those buttons to "Rent" or equivalent.

Change it to “rent” or give the option to download. You can’t have a contract where the terms change at any time for any reason (apples account termination policy)

They already have a rent option, so Rent (As long as your account is in good standing) and Rent (for a few hours) would be even more confusing.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#49

Post by mc32 »

Retric wrote: post #38
mc32 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically media has had a limited play-life. 78s, 45s and 33 warped, broke or got scratched, etc., tapes wore out, broke, got tangled etc., CDs scratched or deteriorated after some time. There are exceptional specimens for all the above, but a good number don’t survive long unless owned by an aficionado who took care of their media. With digital you can have backups and in theory they could last forever as you con…

For CD’s it’s legal to make backup copies in the US which are digital and thus don’t degrade. Many of the oldest recordings still work, and can be played indefinitely with an optical needle. The time value of money means the possible purchase by a small fraction of buyers 20+ years out isn’t worth much at the time of sale. It’s only moving forward in time that makes anyone care about these sales. https://en.wikipedia…

I’m curious are iTunes and similar stores licensing the music to you? I’m guessing it is a license and not ownership. In either case I can see them addressing this problem of lower velocity with subscription only licensing where you license tunes for X amount of time.

Obviously not in the interest of consumers but I can see why sellers would go this route.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#50

Post by alisonkisk »

thathndude wrote: post #36
black_puppydog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid you might be right about 2, but wrt 1 I think you can absolutely sue your way out of a contract if it was made after blatantly false advertising, no?

That’s correct. Am a lawyer, not giving legal advice. A very common term in contracts is what is called a merger clause, and what it says essentially is that the contract forms the entire agreement of the parties, and that any oral representations not contained in the contract are irrelevant and to be completely disregarded. But there are courts that hold that a merger clause is not absolute and has its limits. Make…

That's what class actions are for. The lawyer and the class representative get paid for their work to pursue the case.
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