Its good to see HN can have nice, civil discussions about things like "Did a historically documented genocide actually occur"
The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
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Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#42Why dont we let historians investigate this instead of politicians?
Because historians has long since written the last stroke on the event? It has been only a century since to reconstruct events thoroughly from first sources. Similarly, it's beyond obscene to demand a revision of holokost when there are still living, breathing survivors who toiled in death camps.
> Because historians has long since written the last stroke on the event?
I don’t think so. There are likely still findings to be made. Robert Fisk would occasionally write on this exact topic.
In his book The Great War for Civilisation he describes finding human remains from a massacre of Armenians in Syria. The event was described to him by an elderly survivor and Fisk later sought out the location.
The below link is an example and there are numerous articles.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/rober...
Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Biden has recently declared his intention to have the US formally recognize the Armenian Genocide.
I wonder when the US will fully recognize the North American Native Genocide and build a monument in DC - hopefully in proportion to the monument in NYC.
I have bad feeling Turkey's president might go that route and bring it up as a retaliation.
Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#44This hate is a bit present, still today. In Stockholm, Sweden, 5 years ago:
"Death to the Armenian dogs",
said B. Leylani, who was, back then, the vice president of the Turkish National Association of Sweden. The spectators (Turkish extremists?) were cheering. Later he had to resign (there are also, of course, kind and reasonable people in that organization, who don't want any more genocides, and I presume they didn't like what he said).
Apparently when the genocidal state, the Ottoman Empire, doesn't get defeated in a war (like happened to the nazis), and doesn't get removed / put in prison, then the genocidal ideas can a bit live on and be somewhat strong, 100 years later.
I'm not saying that people in Turkey would be like that. Angry extremists are always few, in comparison to the many more people who are silent, right. I have friends who are Turkish (they don't like Erdagon b.t.w.).
In the Swedish news: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/starka-reaktioner-efter-t...
A video recording: https://www.facebook.com/The-state-of-Turkey-uncensored-1502...
"Annihilate" is another word he was using.
Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#45My ancestors were murdered both during the Genocide in Anatolia, and in the violence in the years immediately following. I’m also half Jewish. I count both Germans and Turks as friends, but while I have mostly positive opinions of the modern German state, and have gladly visited the country, I can’t say the same for Turkey. The denial of my family’s history is an open wound.
The stories are painful, and the legacy of that pain affects my family even today. My grandparents saw their family members and community murdered and had to rebuild their lives abroad. My grandmother, toward the end of her life, would weep, recounting the violence she endured, reliving the experience in her decline. These scars can persist across generations.
There are two excellent books I can recommend: 1. Black Dog of Fate, by Peter Balakian 2. They Can Live in the Desert, but Nowhere Else, by Ronald Grigor Suny
The first is more of a first person narrative describing the lingering effects of the genocide across generations in the Balakian family, very poetic. It’s a great read, full of life, and poignant in its portrayal of inter-generational pain.
The second is a straight history by a historian, tracing the events, causes, people, etc. It’s a dense, but good read.
Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> how long is it until discussion of the Armenian genocide is flagged as hate speech and fake news? Genocide can be talked about on Facebook, you can even organise it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46105934 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...
I think your links prove my point: Facebook only cares about appeasing the powerful. Whether it is facilitating genocide or covering up genocide, they are the same. If it benefited Facebook, they would just as well deplatform people trying to expose a genocide in Myanmar. And if the Turkish government tried organizing another genocide, I'm sure Facebook would platform it, and censor any opposition to it. Why wouldn't…
Your view is very cynical and I agree with you.
Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly Armenian terrorist organization Tashnak has killed millions of Turks in France/Russia imperial army uniforms before their migration and Armenian terrorist organization ASALA recently killed a dozen diplomats in western cities and Armenian state and militia has killed 100s of thousands in Azerbaijan literally occupying the country. The whole genocide agenda is somewhat to hide that sad truth. Recent killings are…
Do you have any sources you can share? I found the wiki page for ARF (I think the same thing as Tashnak) and I don't see anything about killing millions of Turks. To be honest I'm a bit skeptical
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Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly Armenian terrorist organization Tashnak has killed millions of Turks in France/Russia imperial army uniforms before their migration and Armenian terrorist organization ASALA recently killed a dozen diplomats in western cities and Armenian state and militia has killed 100s of thousands in Azerbaijan literally occupying the country. The whole genocide agenda is somewhat to hide that sad truth. Recent killings are…
Do you have any sources you can share? I found the wiki page for ARF (I think the same thing as Tashnak) and I don't see anything about killing millions of Turks. To be honest I'm a bit skeptical
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Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#49Interesting article, however I couldn't find primary Turkish sources that detailed the reasoning behind the deportations. Did the Turks institute the policy to remove Armenians from within Turkey or to exterminate them?
Sadly Armenian terrorist organization Tashnak has killed millions of Turks in France/Russia imperial army uniforms before their migration and Armenian terrorist organization ASALA recently killed a dozen diplomats in western cities and Armenian state and militia has killed 100s of thousands in Azerbaijan literally occupying the country. The whole genocide agenda is somewhat to hide that sad truth. Recent killings are…
Well, let's see whether this genocide denying nonsense is allowed to stay up. I have a feeling that somebody denying the holocaust in such a shamefully obvious way would be booted off the site. I hope that dang is dealing with this the same way.
Re: The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): In Depth
#50This hate is a bit present, still today. In Stockholm, Sweden, 5 years ago: "Death to the Armenian dogs", said B. Leylani, who was, back then, the vice president of the Turkish National Association of Sweden. The spectators (Turkish extremists?) were cheering. Later he had to resign (there are also, of course, kind and reasonable people in that organization, who don't want any more genocides, and I presume they didn'…
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