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Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

bbc.com

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Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#41

Post by threeseed »

erhk wrote: post #25
eruleman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. It's a duopoly, a cartel. A system controlled by two players who move in coordination with one another. techcrunch.com/2021/03/16/google-play-drops-commissions-to-15-from-30-following-apples-move-last-year

Good thing that they all cross into each other's primary fields so that there's never a monopoly. Google makes phones. Windows is a search company.

Apple has a search engine. Apple sells advertising. Apple has a maps app.

So does Yahoo, Naver, Yandex, Baidu etc. It's all very far from a cartel.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#42

Post by RunawayGalaxy »

erhk wrote: post #33
ghayes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and Keurig has a monopoly on coffee if you own a Keurig machine and don't buy from Starbucks. While these corporate actions *are* anti-consumer, they do not generally fall in line with the standard definition of a monopoly, which includes looking at the the whole market, not just a sub-section of it. E.g. my local golf course also has a monopoly on golf balls while I'm in their pro-shop.

Make up a new word and fine them all the same. If you engage in anti consumer practices then I, a consumer, highly endorse anti corporate legislation.

TBH this is reasonable. I'm not on the side of Apple, but the monopoly claim is ridiculous to me.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#43

Post by gumby »

kemayo wrote: post #19
BoysenberryPi wrote: post #7

> She also accused Apple of preventing Tile from using the technology behind Apple's Find My function, giving AirTags an unfair advantage. I am not a person who uses Apple products so someone please clarify for me. Does Apple grant access to this to other people? Can I create a GPS-enabled product and use Apple's SDK to implement "Find My...?"

Apple recently allowed this. Tile's complaint now is that the Apple Find My integration requires that you only work with Find My, so Tile's app (and presumably related subscription products) becomes unnecessary.

Except Tile’s competitor that also works with FindMy is not subject to this constraint...

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#44

Post by RunawayGalaxy »

eruleman wrote: post #18
c3534l wrote: post #16

I feel like the entire world has forgotten what a monopoly is. Apparently both Apple and Google are monopolies despite being competitors of one another. Programmers clearly talk about developing apps for one platform or another and sometimes give up on developing for one because the approval process was annoying or arbitrary. Consumers have a choice in the phones they buy and whether to even use a phone app for that…

You're right. It's a duopoly, a cartel. A system controlled by two players who move in coordination with one another. techcrunch.com/2021/03/16/google-play-drops-commissions-to-15-from-30-following-apples-move-last-year

OR maybe that's just how markets work

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#45

Post by Someone1234 »

c3534l wrote: post #16

I feel like the entire world has forgotten what a monopoly is. Apparently both Apple and Google are monopolies despite being competitors of one another. Programmers clearly talk about developing apps for one platform or another and sometimes give up on developing for one because the approval process was annoying or arbitrary. Consumers have a choice in the phones they buy and whether to even use a phone app for that…

Apple has a monopoly for apps stores on iOS devices.

> A monopoly exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity.

Commodity: Apps sales on iOS. Only supplier: Apple.

Apple use their monopolistic market position to enforce a 30% levy on third parties. It has nothing at all to do with Google, since Google cannot compete with Apple to provide app stores on iOS.

Even bringing Google up is an attempt to shift the conversation from the app store situation on iOS to something off-topic and irrelevant (handset market share). That's not what we're discussing.

Let's go through the markers of a monopoly:

- Profit maximizer: Maximizes profits.

Yes.

- Price maker: Decides the price of the good or product to be sold, but does so by determining the quantity in order to demand the price desired by the firm.

Yes.

- Single seller: In a monopoly, there is one seller of the good, who produces all the output. Therefore, the whole market is being served by a single company, and for practical purposes, the company is the same as the industry.

Yes, Apple is the exclusive provider.

- Price discrimination: A monopolist can change the price or quantity of the product.

Yes.

So the Appe Store on iOS checks all the markers of a monopoly. But people want to pretend the monopoly designation can only apply to traditional market segments without justification.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#47

Post by threeseed »

Someone1234 wrote: post #45
c3534l wrote: post #16

I feel like the entire world has forgotten what a monopoly is. Apparently both Apple and Google are monopolies despite being competitors of one another. Programmers clearly talk about developing apps for one platform or another and sometimes give up on developing for one because the approval process was annoying or arbitrary. Consumers have a choice in the phones they buy and whether to even use a phone app for that…

Apple has a monopoly for apps stores on iOS devices. > A monopoly exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity. Commodity: Apps sales on iOS. Only supplier: Apple. Apple use their monopolistic market position to enforce a 30% levy on third parties. It has nothing at all to do with Google, since Google cannot compete with Apple to provide app stores on iOS. Even bringing G…

iOS App Stores is not an industry though any more than Tesla car operating systems or Ikea screws are.

They are intrinsic parts of the objects and have never existed independently of them.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#48

Post by tibbydudeza »

A simple solution to the problem - force Google/Apple to implement API's to allow the loading/code signing verification of applications on their respective platforms.

On the PC we have GOG/Steam/EA/Windows Store etc ... why can't mobile device be the same ???.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#49

Post by dylan604 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #45
c3534l wrote: post #16

I feel like the entire world has forgotten what a monopoly is. Apparently both Apple and Google are monopolies despite being competitors of one another. Programmers clearly talk about developing apps for one platform or another and sometimes give up on developing for one because the approval process was annoying or arbitrary. Consumers have a choice in the phones they buy and whether to even use a phone app for that…

Apple has a monopoly for apps stores on iOS devices. > A monopoly exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity. Commodity: Apps sales on iOS. Only supplier: Apple. Apple use their monopolistic market position to enforce a 30% levy on third parties. It has nothing at all to do with Google, since Google cannot compete with Apple to provide app stores on iOS. Even bringing G…

>- Price maker: Decides the price of the good or product to be sold, but does so by determining the quantity in order to demand the price desired by the firm.

>Yes.

We are talking the app store here, right? How does Apple set the prices of the apps? The devs release their apps at the price they want. Free, Freemium, Paid, In App Purchases, etc.

>- Price discrimination: A monopolist can change the price or quantity of the product.

>Yes.

Again, how is Apple changing the prices of apps on the app store?

>So the Appe Store on iOS checks all the markers of a monopoly. But people want to pretend the monopoly designation can only apply to traditional market segments without justification.

Clearly, I'm disagreeing with this summation.

Re: Google and Apple attacked on app store 'monopoly'

#50

Post by dylan604 »

RunawayGalaxy wrote: post #35
awat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does when you literally can’t operate your store in another mall. I also don’t think this analogy scales very well since many stores operate both in and out of closed shopping centers. Including Apple’s stores.

> It does when you literally can’t operate your store in another mall. Android exists > I also don’t think this analogy scales very well since many stores operate both in and out of closed shopping centers. Including Apple’s stores. How is the scalability of the analogy relevant?

> Android exists

So I see this as 2-sides of the same coin. From the developer's perspective, they can choose which platforms to develop. As a consumer, if you have chosen iDevice, then you can only purchase from the one single store. However, you did make that decision on your own. Corp making you use iDevice, then why are you loading apps onto it that the company did not provide you in the first place?

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