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Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

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Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#41

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

Another great thing about having a mall below housing is that it makes the housing part of the building more attractive to buyers.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#42
post #31

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

Things like this exist in some city centers - but I’ve never seen one in the normal areas malls lurk. The three types usually try to stay some distance from each other unless forced together by exorbitant land prices. The surviving stores that used to be anchor candidates seem to be happy being on their own in a sea of dedicated parking.

Wonder if zoning laws have a big effect on that.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#44
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like this exist in some city centers - but I’ve never seen one in the normal areas malls lurk. The three types usually try to stay some distance from each other unless forced together by exorbitant land prices. The surviving stores that used to be anchor candidates seem to be happy being on their own in a sea of dedicated parking.

Wonder if zoning laws have a big effect on that.

There is very little mixed use zoning in suburban areas...

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#46
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like this exist in some city centers - but I’ve never seen one in the normal areas malls lurk. The three types usually try to stay some distance from each other unless forced together by exorbitant land prices. The surviving stores that used to be anchor candidates seem to be happy being on their own in a sea of dedicated parking.

Wonder if zoning laws have a big effect on that.

The Sid Meier thesis of strictly purpose-oriented land-use allocation is pervasive in the postwar urban planning consciousness.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#49
post #31

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

Things like this exist in some city centers - but I’ve never seen one in the normal areas malls lurk. The three types usually try to stay some distance from each other unless forced together by exorbitant land prices. The surviving stores that used to be anchor candidates seem to be happy being on their own in a sea of dedicated parking.

There is one near me (Dayton, OH). Not exactly as parent described, it is more of an outdoor mall, with lots of restaraunts, there is a gym, but no grocery store. The apartments are quite expensive for the area. I can certainly see the appeal.

Re: Mall department stores were struggling; the pandemic has pushed them to the edge

#50

Malls seem like the perfect mixed use type property. Stores on 1 floor, offices on 2nd floor, then 2-3 floors of housing. 1 of the big department stores could be a grocery store.

The retail portion of a mall is so much more valuable that it is difficult to make economic sense out of that sort of configuration. [1] Architecturally isolating access and services for residential and office uses will tend to dramatically increase costs of those lesser uses...you don't want random mall patrons to have access to the residential areas. If the offices are accessible from the mall use, then why not build more mall which can be rented at much higher rates and can compliment the other stores?

Finally, there is the issue of investment. There are big pots of money for each use...investors who invest in retail, office, and residential. The pots of money for non-conventional projects are much much smaller. One reason is that with mixed use, there are three economic cycles that have to be timed. The retail, office, and housing sectors don't cycle in lock-step.

Your good ideas in real-estate only have legs if you have the money to make them happen. And the time. You're talking a several hundred million dollars and a decade optimistically down the happy path. More likely more since most mall land is already malls and you will have to acquire multiple parcels from multiple owners without them being the wiser and holding out for premium prices.

[1]: Retail uses produce so much income that it makes sense for them to sit vacant for many years instead of converting to some other use.

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