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EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

politico.eu

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Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#41

Post by Dumbdo »

jarmitage wrote: post #26
Dumbdo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you get that from? There's a huge effort to scale up the production up, which you can see by the weekly increasing output for example of Biontech [0]. Discussing one thing doesn't exclude taking care of another. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-bionte...

Nowhere in particular. Perhaps my sentiment is more a reflection of media coverage focusing on issues like TFA, rather than on increasing supply which is less scandalous. Thanks for this link. I would much rather that the media kept me up to date on this instead!

From my personal experience (at least the German) media focuses on that as well. I read a lot of articles on how the companies are working to scale the output up. One good and recent example is this article (paywalled) https://www.zeit.de/2021/15/biontech-werk-marburg-corona-imp...

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#42

Post by stupidcar »

throwaway10110 wrote: post #32
stupidcar wrote: post #15

A couple of months ago Politico also reported that the EU had waived its right to sue in the AZ contract[1], so what gives? Would it kill Politico to give some additional context when a story seems to blatantly contradict its own reporting? [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccine-europe-c...

Apples vs oranges comparison you made, they probably given indemnity in case of unknown sideefects as other vaccines were given in europe, us etc This seems to be a contractual dispute.

Why didn't you read the article I linked? It says:

"The contract makes clear the Commission and EU countries can't sue the drugmaker for a host of issues, most notably if there are 'delays in delivery of the Vaccine under this Agreement.'"

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#43

Post by jpxw »

throwaway10110 wrote: post #27
jpxw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the media and European politicians are responsible for this vaccine skepticism. You reap what you sow. The politicians banned the vaccine despite there not being scientific evidence to suggest that was a reasonable choice. The media in Europe hyped this up massively. In the UK, neither of these things happened, and despite there being some degree of skepticism, the vast majority of people are still wil…

Under 30s in UK are not recommended AZ jab Its same in other countries ranging from no restriction to restriction being to anything up to under 60s not recommended is not same as "banned" stop reading UK tabloids.

Hang on, I don’t think it’s “not recommended” to under 30s. I think under 30s are just given the choice of an alternative vaccine, if they’d like it.

In many EU countries, the vaccine was banned for large segments of the population for extended periods of time.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#44

Post by DoingIsLearning »

codebeaker wrote: post #19

Sorry if this is considered off-topic, but I mus thave surely missed something about why AstraZeneca is seemingly the only choice on the vaccine market. I am German, we developed the Pfizer vaccine, but there is _no_ news about it, it seems like the AZ vaccine is the only option. Is it a case that Pfizer wasn't viable, wasn't used here, or only made lucrative contracts with other countries, or is it being used, quiet…

I can't remember exact values but my guess is this friction comes from the price point.

AZ was negotiated at something like less than 2 euros per shot for EU markets, and the Pfizer contracts varied wildly for different countries but it was negotiated at about 15 euros per shot for EU.

With my cynical hat on if you are having to vaccinate millions that order of magnitude difference probably matters.

What I haven't seen anyone discuss at the EC level is what would be the maths of just paying premium Israel prices for the Pfizer vaccine?

Would the economic benefits of get out of this mess as quickly as possible outweigh the extra euros per shot spent on vaccination. My guess is it would likely pay off but then again I am not a European Commissioner.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#45

Post by zpeti »

throwaway10110 wrote: post #20
nailer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the other vaccines also slightly elevate the chance of blood clotting. To less than the elevation caused by the contraceptive pill.

---

Why not mention the very negative mentions of AZ by macron and merkel? Macron even wanted to stop all foreign vaccines and rely on some French one.

I have no love for Putin or Johnson but this most certainly wasn’t down to just their politics. EU leaders are massively at fault here with their rhetoric too.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#46

Post by rn1d »

codebeaker wrote: post #19

Sorry if this is considered off-topic, but I mus thave surely missed something about why AstraZeneca is seemingly the only choice on the vaccine market. I am German, we developed the Pfizer vaccine, but there is _no_ news about it, it seems like the AZ vaccine is the only option. Is it a case that Pfizer wasn't viable, wasn't used here, or only made lucrative contracts with other countries, or is it being used, quiet…

The main problem with the Pfizer vaccine is that there is not enough of it. The government of my country gladly orders any Pfizer doses that are offered, but it's not enough. People here generally favor the Pfizer vaccine over the AstraZeneca vaccine, given all the bad press of the latter. Pfizer is very well known and desirable, that's not the problem.

AstraZeneca on the other hand promised plentiful quantities, and my country made plans based on those promises, but AstraZeneca failed to deliver. I guess the EU feels screwed over.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#47

Post by ketzu »

codebeaker wrote: post #19

Sorry if this is considered off-topic, but I mus thave surely missed something about why AstraZeneca is seemingly the only choice on the vaccine market. I am German, we developed the Pfizer vaccine, but there is _no_ news about it, it seems like the AZ vaccine is the only option. Is it a case that Pfizer wasn't viable, wasn't used here, or only made lucrative contracts with other countries, or is it being used, quiet…

I am not sure where you currently are, so maybe I misunderstand the question. Sorry if that's the case.

> there is _no_ news about it

There is regular news about Biontech/Pfitzer in Germany. Including additional deliveries based on eu negotiations [1] and it needing yearly refreshments [2].

Further, the vaccine distribution in germany is like this [3]:

Biontech 18mio

AZ 6mio

Moderna 1.8mio

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/de/statem...

[2] https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Biontech-braucht-wohl-jaehrlich...

[3] https://impfdashboard.de

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#48

Post by mort96 »

JI00912 wrote: post #25

> the point of the legal proceedings is to make it mandatory for AstraZeneca to provide the doses set out in its EU contract The point of a contract is always that fulfilling the contract is mandatory. That said, legal proceedings won't make anything go faster any more than other attempts at what sounds like plan economy.

I don't understand how you could possibly call this an attempt at plan economy, unless you consider all solicitation of a product by a government to be plan economy?

How is this fundamentally any different from the US's purchasing of doses from BioNTech/Pfizer? I'm sure the US would take legal action against Pfizer if they weren't delivering doses according to the agreement?

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#49

Post by ben_w »

jolts wrote: post #31

I thought maybe people getting blood clots and dropping like flies in parking lots would be more worrying than not getting enough but ok..

It’s something like a thousand times less dangerous than the virus — 4 or 5 per million for the vaccine, 1 to 10 per thousand for the disease.

(And COVID deaths staying that low assumes we continue to prevent the instantaneous case load exceeding the capacity of the health care system, which is hard enough when we can tell people a vaccine is coming and they just need to wait for it).

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#50

Post by jarmitage »

junippor wrote: post #22
jarmitage wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me neither, but I find it hard to believe that it is more difficult than remaining stuck in the pandemic.

The manufacturing process is a matter of precision engineering. "Remaining stuck" is just... psychologically difficult? How do you compare which one is "more difficult"? Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

I would have taken your question seriously if you didn't follow it up with an over-generalised and rude remark.
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