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Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#41

Post by sigg3 »

sneak wrote: post #3

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing". Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

People with social anxiety might retreat to their home to feel safe, but that's not the same as it being healthy nor the best option for them.

You might be antisocial, but at least one of the guys in TFA talks of overwhelming shame. It's arguably (perceived or not) external reasons for this self-solitude, possibly a matter of heteronomy rather than autonomy.

Of course it's a societal issue.

Getting these individuals help might just be treating the symptoms, however, if the cause turns out to be a cultural phenomenon. It might require targeted political effort to properly frame and address the real problems.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#42

Post by kjrose »

kiba wrote: post #27
kjrose wrote: post #8

"According to him, he is a great man and could do extraordinary things, but he does not always try his best" This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as muc…

This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as much as they think it's worth. This is extremely presumptive and dismissive. Also living with your parents isn't…

I am not referring to everyone who lives at home with parents, nor am I saying that living at home with parents is a bad thing or an indicator of social recluse.

What I said is I've seen this "exact attitude with individuals" (as in some individuals, not all.) For example, my daughter's kindergarten teacher lives with his parents, and I have absolutely no issue with it. However, I do know someone who is well into their 30s that is living with their parents because every job they've ever had did not "treat them well enough", in many cases they lasted less than a week, and their parents continue to allow them to basically get away with not working.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#43

Post by kjrose »

mrtksn wrote: post #31
kjrose wrote: post #8

"According to him, he is a great man and could do extraordinary things, but he does not always try his best" This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as muc…

>immense sense of worth Not necessarily sense of worth, I would argue. I doubt that it's the first time in history when parents told their children that they are very beautiful and smart, much better than anyone else. IMHO cushion of enough wealth to allow a lifestyle of "prefer not to" combined with lowered expectations of the life is a total destroyer. Many people in developed countries can choose not to face the d…

I agree fully with your addendum to my comment.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#44

Post by Bukhmanizer »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #35
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #23

I’m glad the article mostly restrains itself from the “wacky Japan” angle, and states pretty flat out that a “rental sister” is pretty analogous to the role of a social worker. It’s weird that people marvel over “host” and “hostess” clubs in Japan, when I know of many restaurants in the US and Canada, where the main draw is that a pretty girl/guy will be nice to you for your time there. Is it the exact same thing? No…

Cont. My theory is that we go through this little dance because we can’t stand to admit that there’s anything structurally wrong with our society. If people feel lonely, or unsupported by their community, then well, it just means they’re broken, and should go through years of expensive and intensive therapy. Otherwise, just deal with it and get back to work. I’m not saying we all need to join communes or anything, bu…

PS. I’m pretty sure the reason I’m thinking about this is because I watched the WeWork documentary yesterday. It seems like Neumann capitalized on using rhetoric about this very issue. He talks a lot about how people seem disconnected and disinterested in their surrounding community. A lot of people probably felt that message resonate pretty strongly with them. The problem was that he was trying to solve it with... new office divisions. Which is pretty fucking irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. But my feeling is that a lot of people bought in because they liked that message.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#45

Post by kingsuper20 »

Just to break it down, it seems to me that isolation is a different thing than inactivity coupled with constrained spaces.

If you watch the 'My Self Reliance' channel on youtube (and I realize the guy has a wife and older kids), the alone part doesn't seem so bad if combined with ongoing projects. Plus these are projects that have to get done.

Plus, he has a good looking Golden Retriever, no doubt better company than some of the people I know.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#46

Post by kjrose »

jmchuster wrote: post #28
heterodoxxed wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth Is there an abundance of this in Japanese culture that I wasn't aware of?

Probably just an abundance of this in humans in general? A lovely John Steinbeck paraphrase/misquote from another thread: "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

We live in an age of underappreciated princes with no fiefdoms.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#47

Post by throwawayboise »

kiba wrote: post #27
kjrose wrote: post #8

"According to him, he is a great man and could do extraordinary things, but he does not always try his best" This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as muc…

This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as much as they think it's worth. This is extremely presumptive and dismissive. Also living with your parents isn't…

> living with your parents isn't necessary an indicator of a social reclusve

Assuming you mean living with your parents in their house, it pretty much is. It's different if you have an elderly parent living with you in your house.

Anyone in his 30s and living with his parents is going to have constrained social opportunities unless he's some kind of royalty.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#48

Post by luckylion »

mwfunk wrote: post #21
durnygbur wrote: post #7

The basic needs of a man until his late 30s are quite straightforward. If there is no chance for sex, and professional endeavours deliver more stress than anything else, then why bother with the rest? Saying this from completely different perspective - of a native citizen of less developed EU country, the pandemic measures and shutdowns almost haven't changed my lifestyle.

If those are the only things that makes someone happy (it's not necessarily; all people are different, but let's say those are the basic needs at work here), and they aren't getting either of those things, then they can either give up become shut-ins and stay on that trajectory, or they can do everything they can to figure out how become the kind of person they want to be, or at least become a happier or wiser person…

That sounds like "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps". Am I correct to assume that you've never really gone through something like that? Maybe a deep, multi-year depression that leaves you unable to do even the most mundane things? It does kind of sound like it, but like everyone in front of the TV during a game, you have the best advice for those who're in it.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#49

Post by throwawayboise »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #34
mwfunk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those are the only things that makes someone happy (it's not necessarily; all people are different, but let's say those are the basic needs at work here), and they aren't getting either of those things, then they can either give up become shut-ins and stay on that trajectory, or they can do everything they can to figure out how become the kind of person they want to be, or at least become a happier or wiser person…

The article's description of cultural pressures on young men seems crushing. One must work obscene hours, never lose face, represent the family at all times, and support a family on one salary.

Most men are happiest when they are working hard and supporting their family. I'm not sure why this is seen as crushing pressure.
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