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Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#41

Post by joakleaf »

alkonaut wrote: post #3

Not giving it to 65+ people seems overly cautious. There are zero cases in that group and even just a small delay will mean many dead. This is trading a potential unlikely side effect for a large number of severe Covid cases in high risk groups. Edit: yes I'm aware they have only a dozen or so dead per week but that also translates to hundreds of severe cases, missed elective surgeries, etc. For what would most likel…

The 65+ group are to a large extend already vaccinated or have begun vaccinations with other vaccines in Denmark.

The expected overall delay from not using AstraZeneca until all adults have been vaccinated is 3-4 weeks.

Current death rate in Denmark is 2/day. Population 5.8 Million.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#42

Post by vinni2 »

alkonaut wrote: post #3

Not giving it to 65+ people seems overly cautious. There are zero cases in that group and even just a small delay will mean many dead. This is trading a potential unlikely side effect for a large number of severe Covid cases in high risk groups. Edit: yes I'm aware they have only a dozen or so dead per week but that also translates to hundreds of severe cases, missed elective surgeries, etc. For what would most likel…

Denmark as low number of cases and down to 7 day average of 2 deaths. Assuming they have lockdown measures in place they aren’t risking much from dropping AstraZeneca.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#43

Post by maxehmookau »

What a huge shame. The risk/benefit analysis does not support this decision at all.

The risks of blot clotting from a variety of other sources are orders of magnitude higher (looking at you hormonal contraception) but those are risks that large sections of the population gladly accept.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#44

Post by frafra »

hef19898 wrote: post #23
emptyfile wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that sad? Do you think the CEO and shareholders approved that deal because their hearts are so good and pure, to help humanity? No, it was to become a vaccine manuf. in a time of pandemic, to make big bucks (since at cost sales end in August this year). Oxford scientists came up with the vaccine and the deal to manufacture it with a partner. It looked like a great deal until it turned out that AZ is completely…

How is AZ incompetent? On other aspects than PR, that is. Their vaccine is working, it is sufficiently effective by anyones standard. That mRNA vaccines turned out to be better is great, but it was not sure a year ago.

They failed to deliver and respect the contract with the EU. This and what their CEO said about the differences in contracts between UK and EU (timing and best efforts - while the differences did not justify the different treatment). They cared so little about PR that some science communicators (like Burioni in Italy) stopped to defend the AZ vaccine because of the total lack of statements and communications from AZ, even if they have a positive opinion about the vaccine itself.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#45

Post by sbuk »

mantap wrote: post #14
fighterpilot wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not allocate most of the Pfizer to the young and give the AZ exclusively to the older people?

Theoretically Pfizer has higher efficacy, especially with variants. Giving Pfizer to the old and AZ to the young probably saves more lives than the other way around. If you decide that you don't want to give AZ to the young any more, it doesn't follow that it's then a good idea to give it to the old, especially if you have enough supplies of Pfizer to vaccinate the old.

All the vaccines have 100% efficacy in preventing ICU admissions so far.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#46

Post by akie »

hyko wrote: post #24
0-_-0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part is that AstraZeneca chose to sell the vaccine at cost, making no profit. This amount of negative publicity with no good reason will make them (and others) think twice about such a gesture.

Yeah, $20 a shot vs $3 a shot buys a lot of influence. Still, it’s good that someone stepped up the the plate, otherwise most people on earth would remain unvaccinated.

What would also help is if the UK and the US would export vaccine to other countries, like the rest of the world does. Sharing is caring?

EDIT: https://www.statista.com/chart/24555/vaccine-doses-produced-...

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#47

Post by hef19898 »

ethanbond wrote: post #36
hef19898 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is AZ incompetent? On other aspects than PR, that is. Their vaccine is working, it is sufficiently effective by anyones standard. That mRNA vaccines turned out to be better is great, but it was not sure a year ago.

I think incompetent is harsh, but they had a bad data submission and also a dosing error. Neither is a good look. Neither ended up being a big problem but they could’ve been.

Yeah, that was an issue. I cannot tell how much of an issue, because I have zero experience with medical trials. As do most people, I assume, getting upset about that. Regardless, AZ got approval in the UK and from EMA in the EU. And these entities job is clinical trial assessment.

Unless I am going to refuse any and all drugs and medical treatment, I will have to trust e.g. EMA that the stuff I take when being sick is safe and working as intended.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#48

Post by rsynnott »

fighterpilot wrote: post #6
ceejayoz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says it’s a four week pushback and that 70%+ are already getting Pfizer.

Why not allocate most of the Pfizer to the young and give the AZ exclusively to the older people?

Does Denmark actually have older people to give it to? A lot of EU countries are restricting it to over 60s only, but AFAIK the Denmark vaccine program has gone quicker than most EU ones; there may not be many if any over 60s available.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#49

Post by Tenoke »

da_chicken wrote: post #33
refurb wrote: post #22

That’s seems like a bit draconian. There is no “safe drug”, “unsafe drug”. It’s a continuum and it’s balanced by the benefit. I find it hard to believe there isn’t a subgroup where the benefit of the vaccine doesn’t outweigh the risk.

There certainly is, but there's also other vaccines which don't exhibit this problem. Why should we administer AstraZenica or J&J when Moderna and Pfizer are available and don't have any correlated blood clot issues?

Because they aren't 'available'. The EU is currently at just 15% vaccinated. Stopping the use of some vaccines means it will take longer and longer to vaccinate people during which time more people will die, not to even speak of the other negative effects of the prolonged pandemic.
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