Noob here. Does this imply the FBI can just remote control any PC in the US? How does that work (apart from having the client running on your computer of course)
No, only computers that are configured to give remote access to the public.
FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
41–50 of 54 posts
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#42This is probably a net positive for national security... but I still don't like it. I don't want the FBI doing anything to my computer without my permission.
What are you suggesting that by setting this precedent the US Government would use it to illegally and unconstitutionally harm people who are politically unpopular. I do not think this would happen the US government is good the US government is right they protect you and keep you safe from evil terrorists who would try to hurt you. Please do not think about this too much, please go consume your next television show a…
Let me tell you about the patriot act.... these things are always done under the guise of safety when in reality it just ends up giving them more power that eventually gets used in malicious ways and restricts our freedom more and more.
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're using the vulnerability in question to go in and eliminate that vulnerability, locking themselves out. It's like a cop seeing a wide open front door, and going into the threshold in order to reach the door handle so he can pull it closed. Did he go into the house? Yes. Because it was open, and only in order to close it.
Except you have no idea what else they're doing in there before they so nicely "close the door". Besides, your metaphor doesn't work since cops aren't allowed to just enter a premise due to it being unlocked or open. That doesn't fall under any of the reasons to enter a premise without warrant. Leaving a door unlocked or open is not a crime that gives them free pass. I really have a hard time understanding people's l…
Really? They can't set one foot inside in order to reach the doorhandle if the door is 90 degrees open?
And what America are we talking about, "your rights according to the ACLU" America, media portrayals of America, or in-real-life common sense America where you can have a ten minute conversation with a policeman about everyday things with no worries because it's actually no big deal?
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is very poor advice. “If the FBI is in your box you’re already dead.” No, in this case, they are fixing a hack. I don’t want them touching my stuff, but that’s hardly “dead”. “Cheaper to buy a new box” Reinstalling and reconfiguring is always cheaper than buying new and reconfiguring. This reasoning is very poor, why did you feel the need to make this comment?
I don't think he means that because it's the FBI. I think he means that since the FBI is using the vulnerability itself to patch affected systems that you've already been compromised if the FBI is able to do this to your system.
But buy a new machine?
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really that bad and different than what they do in the physical world? If someone breaks into your home and they are still inside when the police show up, they won't just give you a call and tell you someone is inside your home. They will go in there and get the criminal out of your home. The threat actors are actively stealing information and are inside the networks of many companies, some with the expertise t…
Not quite the same. If someone installs a hidden microphone in my house, or a multi keyed lock (where they have a working copy) I really expect the Police to ask me before they come in my house to remove the offending equipment or change my lock for me. If they come in the house uninvited then all they achieve is make me lose trust in them. I'll just start wondering how long until they abuse this and do it whenever i…
I'm not sure it was exactly analogous to a microphone or a different lock in the physical world. The bad actors installed reverse shells, the shells could have been sitting idle, but they could have also have been in active use by the bad actors. In the physical world, cops have exigent circumstance rules that would allow them to go inside a residence in cases like that. Their first priority isn't normally making sure that the home owner won't be annoyed. But in this case, the fbi obtained a warrant since this is a gray zone.
Yes, it would have been more courteous of them to have notified people before they took the action, but the notifications could have prompted evasive actions by the bad actors if those notifications went public.
I doubt the fbi had sinister intentions about abusing anyone's rights. These were nation state bad actors, not just some kid in Virginia. If they kept their word about what they would and would not touch in the warrant, then I don't see why it's so bad that they proactively protect their citizens. China has had free reign to hack our businesses and it seems good to me that our government is standing up for those businesses and trying to help them some.
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except you have no idea what else they're doing in there before they so nicely "close the door". Besides, your metaphor doesn't work since cops aren't allowed to just enter a premise due to it being unlocked or open. That doesn't fall under any of the reasons to enter a premise without warrant. Leaving a door unlocked or open is not a crime that gives them free pass. I really have a hard time understanding people's l…
Really? They can't set one foot inside in order to reach the doorhandle if the door is 90 degrees open? And what America are we talking about, "your rights according to the ACLU" America, media portrayals of America, or in-real-life common sense America where you can have a ten minute conversation with a policeman about everyday things with no worries because it's actually no big deal?
Yes really and this isn't just simply "door closing".
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really that bad and different than what they do in the physical world? If someone breaks into your home and they are still inside when the police show up, they won't just give you a call and tell you someone is inside your home. They will go in there and get the criminal out of your home. The threat actors are actively stealing information and are inside the networks of many companies, some with the expertise t…
It's a tragic precedent that is the result of decades of technical debt. Of course I'm not at all surprised to learn that the feds would rather take more unchecked power for themselves than use their mouthpieces to pressure Congress into forcing an industry wide focus on security that has teeth. From top to bottom the internet of things needs to be redesigned to treat every port and every communicated bit as potentia…
> Of course I'm not at all surprised to learn that the feds would rather take more unchecked power for themselves than use their mouthpieces to pressure Congress into forcing an industry wide focus on security that has teeth.
I'm not sure this was an exercise of unchecked power, they got a warrant. I'm also not sure that the FBI has the ability to tell congress what legislation should or should not be enacted. To me, congress seems to be more beholden to their constituents around election time, then lobbyists and the rest of their party the rest of the time.
Yes, internet security sucks, but that is the world that we and the FBI find ourselves in. Legislation to fix that fact is somewhat plausible but I don't see it being that simple to enact. Security has always been about making a decision that balances risk with the amount of resources it takes to mitigate security risks. Sure, we could push towards perfect security with legislation, but productivity of companies and the economy will take a large hit and I don't see that as something that legislators can push for and expect to be elected again in the future.
Again, yes, our internet security sucks and that is the world we live in. A nation state actor infiltrated the networks of thousands of companies in the united states. The FBI is charged with protecting the citizens of the united states. I'm sure there are a few not so great members of the FBI, but the majority truly believe in fighting to protect our citizens. They followed the law and got a warrant for this action, and assuming they kept their word about what they would and would not touch, they took actions to kick those bad actors off systems of companies in the united states. If a nation state invaded a few thousand residences of our citizens, I would expect nothing less than FBI swat teams going in and solving the issue.
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#48[dupe]
lots of discussion over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26800481
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a tragic precedent that is the result of decades of technical debt. Of course I'm not at all surprised to learn that the feds would rather take more unchecked power for themselves than use their mouthpieces to pressure Congress into forcing an industry wide focus on security that has teeth. From top to bottom the internet of things needs to be redesigned to treat every port and every communicated bit as potentia…
> Of course I'm not at all surprised to learn that the feds would rather take more unchecked power for themselves than use their mouthpieces to pressure Congress into forcing an industry wide focus on security that has teeth. I'm not sure this was an exercise of unchecked power, they got a warrant. I'm also not sure that the FBI has the ability to tell congress what legislation should or should not be enacted. To me,…
Given the stained, with the blood of innocents, history of law enforcement in the USA I'm infinitely skeptical of every action they take that sets new precedent for expansions of their powers. I recognize the need for law enforcement and largely support those involved, however they have earned their reputation with decades of bad decisions and will continue to be the subject of criticism, condemnation, and distrust until they can find it within themselves to relinquish unnecessary powers, right their wrongs, modernize their culture, and prosecute the numerous bad actors in their ranks.
As far as warrants go, I don't expect anything with "national security implications" to be denied, ever. Have you heard of the fisa court?
>11 denied requests out of around 34,000 granted in 35 years – equivalent to 0.03%
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intell...
I'm not saying we need to burn down the internet and start over. But couldn't we toss 5-10 billion a year to leaders in the software world to design a secure os and hardware from first principles? Is humanity too vulnerable to individual whims like greed and lust for power ends prestige to accomplish such a feat? This country landed a person on the moon with computers less powerful than my cell phone, or laptop. We made the atomic bomb. Humanity is up to the task, I believe our leaders have lost their way and this article is more evidence of that.
Re: FBI Accesses Computers Around Country to Delete Microsoft Exchange Hacks
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not quite the same. If someone installs a hidden microphone in my house, or a multi keyed lock (where they have a working copy) I really expect the Police to ask me before they come in my house to remove the offending equipment or change my lock for me. If they come in the house uninvited then all they achieve is make me lose trust in them. I'll just start wondering how long until they abuse this and do it whenever i…
I'm not sure it was exactly analogous to a microphone or a different lock in the physical world. The bad actors installed reverse shells, the shells could have been sitting idle, but they could have also have been in active use by the bad actors. In the physical world, cops have exigent circumstance rules that would allow them to go inside a residence in cases like that. Their first priority isn't normally making sur…
There's no perfect analogy between the real world and the digital one. This being said you're misconstruing the situation to make the "but terrorists" and "think of the children" argument. I've lived long enough to see people parrot the same claims over and over again, changing only the $enemy_of_the_day. What you have in those servers are the criminals' tools. The FBI went there to remove the tools, not the criminals.
So sure, if the Police sees a criminal in my house about to shoot me, walk right in, please. But I don't want them sneaking in without my explicit consent or a warrant to remove a gun left under my couch by a criminal.
I can easily turn the exact arguments you're using into supporting backdooring encryption. Or pretty much any "proactive" move that will "stop the Chinese". No amount of rationalizing will change the fact that you shouldn't force these "favors" on anyone. Pass a law that mandates something to the same effect to be implemented by the owners themselves, or by the vendor, once informed of the risk, under the threat of penalties if they don't.