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Rust is for Professionals

gregoryszorc.com

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Re: Rust is for Professionals

#41

Post by kzhukov »

skohan wrote: post #17

Rust is currently my favorite language for personal projects. It's got a very good value proposition in terms of giving some high level features along with low level control and performance, great compatibility story, and the tooling and community is absolutely great. However , as the manager of a technical team, I would not choose it for professional projects. The learning curve is very steep, and to reap the benefi…

> safety-critical applications

Nope, Rust is also not suitable for these tasks since it doesn't have a certified toolchain (e.g. ISO26262 for automotive or DO-178 for aerospace).

> embedded

Current LLVM-based compiler lacks support for some platforms (e.g. Xtensa for some ESP32 MCUs).

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#42

Post by rogers18445 »

ocschwar wrote: post #21
CJefferson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this can be painful, my basic suggestion -- clone more. The temptation is to never clone, butin C++ people run copy constructors all the time without thinking about it (as they are called automatically).

Cloning means runtime inefficiency, but the cost is so pathetically small compared to the amount of code we run in Python and Java with their larger footprints. Yes. Clone more.

The vast majority of the code you write is glue code, you can be as inefficient when writing it as you want and it doesn't matter. Optimize only what the profiler tells you your cpu is spending real time in.

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#43

Post by ahelwer »

devit wrote: post #37
ahelwer wrote: post #12

Here I am on day three of an attempt to modify a rust program with logic that would have taken about twenty minutes to implement in C# or Java. It has to do with operations on strings (use a regex to find a string in some text, escape all the regex-reserved characters in that string, then use the string as a regex to find other occurrences of itself in the text) so I get that I'm really thrown into the borrow-checker…

That seems rather trivial, and I'm not sure how you could possibly have any issues with the borrow checker. Just do the first regex search, then escape into a String with regex::escape, then build a regex from the String and search with it. Of course what you are doing is probably wrong since you should use a string matching crate rather than escaping characters and using a regex matching crate.

Since it's so trivial, I would be quite happy for you to implement the feature for me! https://github.com/tree-sitter/tree-sitter/issues/982

Just lol at the idea that you won't run into borrow checker issues when dealing with strings though.

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#45

Post by EE84M3i »

ocschwar wrote: post #13
VBprogrammer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be misinterpreting that as "Rust introduced these things" rather than "I learned about these things from Rust".

Also, Rust introduced the idea of these things in a systems language.

Popularized. Many others did it first. ATS comes to mind.

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#46

Post by sanxiyn »

ajross wrote: post #29
ahelwer wrote: post #12

Here I am on day three of an attempt to modify a rust program with logic that would have taken about twenty minutes to implement in C# or Java. It has to do with operations on strings (use a regex to find a string in some text, escape all the regex-reserved characters in that string, then use the string as a regex to find other occurrences of itself in the text) so I get that I'm really thrown into the borrow-checker…

That's where I always end up when I start playing with Rust too. At this point I genuinely think I've given up on belief that the "borrow checker" paradigm is ever really going to be broadly successful (vs. "screw it, just do it in "). Problems with well-constrained allocation paradigms do really well in rust. Problems with reading/parsing/storing messy data structures from external data just really, really hurt . I…

No, borrow checker's formal rules are rather simple. Here it is:

It is an error to access a place, when an access conflicts with a loan, and the loan is live.

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#47

Post by wyldfire »

kzhukov wrote: post #41
skohan wrote: post #17

Rust is currently my favorite language for personal projects. It's got a very good value proposition in terms of giving some high level features along with low level control and performance, great compatibility story, and the tooling and community is absolutely great. However , as the manager of a technical team, I would not choose it for professional projects. The learning curve is very steep, and to reap the benefi…

> safety-critical applications Nope, Rust is also not suitable for these tasks since it doesn't have a certified toolchain (e.g. ISO26262 for automotive or DO-178 for aerospace). > embedded Current LLVM-based compiler lacks support for some platforms (e.g. Xtensa for some ESP32 MCUs).

'Embedded' doesn't require supporting everyone's favorite microcontroller. Even if ESP32 is really popular, there's plenty of others. OBTW experimental xtensa backend is landing in upstream llvm lately.

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#48

Post by nemetroid »

CJefferson wrote: post #16
ahelwer wrote: post #12

Here I am on day three of an attempt to modify a rust program with logic that would have taken about twenty minutes to implement in C# or Java. It has to do with operations on strings (use a regex to find a string in some text, escape all the regex-reserved characters in that string, then use the string as a regex to find other occurrences of itself in the text) so I get that I'm really thrown into the borrow-checker…

While this can be painful, my basic suggestion -- clone more. The temptation is to never clone, butin C++ people run copy constructors all the time without thinking about it (as they are called automatically).

I've never seen C++ that isn't cautious about copying as little as possible.

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#49

Post by sanxiyn »

ahelwer wrote: post #39
sanxiyn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't learn Rust by StackOverflow, that just doesn't work. It is well known, I repeat this everytime I see it happening, and they never listen. It's deeply frustrating.

I mean yeah, that's why I went and read a bunch of the book. But I still run into lots of issues. Like what the hell is a borrow cow and when would I want to use it? And how do I fix the "temporary value dropped when borrowed" error in a series of maps on options?

Clone more.

Re: Rust is for Professionals

#50

Post by PartiallyTyped »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #23
jvanderbot wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. It's not going to replace Python, and if maintenance is the metric, then "rewrite it in rust" is not the right move. But I do think Rust will gain traction, be a round a long time, and slowly become a complement to existing C/C++ ecosystems through wrapping and binding. I'm just not sure the other way will materialize. Until Rust can be used to feed back into C/C++ ecosystems and long-standing projects (like t…

At this point Rust is not the prmary ecosystem for anything. The important and exciting new things are written in C++, not Rust. Rust has no advantages over C++ once you know C++.

I find a lot more things that I like in rust over Cxx; I like the trait system over Cxx's whole virtual functions and interfaces. I like algebraic types and forced enumeration of cases, I like immutable by default without the need to write const everywhere, and I certainly prefer cargo over anything I have seen in Cxx ecosystem.
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