Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was actually thinking that you should be able to build a bot for MMOs and other kind of games that require farming with a raspberry pi or arduino acting like a mouse with a camera for image recognition. Don't know how feasible that is, but that would be undetectable by anti-cheat software.
Not really, some anti-cheat analysis is server-side and designed to catch people acting bot-like.
Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
41–50 of 122 posts
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#42I have a friend who used to work at Valve as a software engineer - he mentioned to me that the entire source networking stack is chock full of unchecked buffers and all sorts of potential for fairly trivial RCEs, but due to Valve's internal structure (or lack thereof) there really isn't any incentive for anyone to fix them. This was 5-6 odd years ago and he no longer works there, so things might have changed, but bas…
Game devs don't optimize for security, because they're not incentivised to.
The typical problem at software companies is that developers are incentivized only to write code for new features that will land them promotions and look good on their resume--but bugfixes and security work is not part of that.
Management can counteract this with top-down initiatives. Programs like "fix-it week" or teams dedicated to security with different incentives in place. For example, Google suffers from the "promotion-oriented programming" about as badly as any other company, but they manage to take security seriously.
Valve has "flat hierarchy", which goes in quotes because the hierarchy isn't really flat, it's just hidden. Because the hierarchy is hidden, it's harder to address large-scale problems like institutional priorities... because there are fewer people to delegate large-scale problems to.
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my mind there's a huge difference between the 2. The sony rootkit was installed in secret, full of security holes, hard to remove, and made by a vendor that appeared to give 0 shits about said security holes. All of the anti-cheat solutions I've seen that run in kernel mode are none of those things. They make it well known that they're installing, are made by vendors that actively care about the security of their…
Genshin Impact is a recent game that has included a kernel mode anti-cheat. I would be very surprised if the majority of players know that it exists, or understand what it means to have it run in kernel mode. The Genshin website previously allowed anyone to view the phone number you have linked to your account via the password reset mechanism. Due to common reports of accounts getting stolen (and unable to be recover…
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really, some anti-cheat analysis is server-side and designed to catch people acting bot-like.
Yeah, even if someone made a physical robot that did everything, they'd notice when it did stuff like playing for 1,000 hours without ever taking a break or talking to anyone.
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#45Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems that a lot of people forgot about things like sony installing rootkits on peoples' PCs. Now it's accepted for gaming anti cheat software?
In my mind there's a huge difference between the 2. The sony rootkit was installed in secret, full of security holes, hard to remove, and made by a vendor that appeared to give 0 shits about said security holes. All of the anti-cheat solutions I've seen that run in kernel mode are none of those things. They make it well known that they're installing, are made by vendors that actively care about the security of their…
Many vendors originally hid the fact until they started receiving community backlash about it. For example, Riot with Vanguard originally hid*[0] that it was running 24/7, and also hid the fact that it blocked drivers, until people noticed and complained about it. Many games, PUBG Lite and Genshin Impact in recent memory, also do not reveal this to the user.
[0]: https://gameriv.com/vanguard-adds-a-system-tray-icon-to-give... *: I'm aware there was a blog post about it, but blog post about it != clear, upfront warning on install about behavior
> ...made by vendors that actively care about the security of their products...
Here's some fun, all involving anti-cheats:
- Using xhunter1.sys (XIGNCODE3) for an LPE: https://x86.re/blog/xigncode3-xhunter1.sys-lpe/ (still used in some MMOs!)
- Using capcom.sys (rootkit shipped with Street Fighter V) to write a rootkit: https://www.fuzzysecurity.com/tutorials/28.html
- Using mhyprot2.sys (from Genshin Impact) to read/write umode memory / read kmode memory with kernel privileges: https://github.com/ScHaTTeNLiLiE/libmhyprot (still exploitable, AFAIK!)
- Using BEDaisy.sys (BattlEye - shipped in Rainbow Six: Siege, Fortnite, etc) for handle elevation: https://back.engineering/21/08/2020/
In addition, you still need to trust the vendor (duh!). Some of them are essentially RATs, like BattlEye - it loads shellcode from the server that runs in BEService as NT/SYSTEM, and they can target code pushes by IP/ingame ID/etc. Reverse engineering the anti-cheat itself is not enough to trust it; it can change its behavior as it sees fit. They can even choose to specifically target you and steal your files, and there's a very high chance you'll never find out about it.
> ...and are trivially easy to remove once they're no longer needed.
Depends on how you define "trivially easy" - for eg. with Riot Vanguard, it installs/uninstalls separately from Valorant so you need to remember that separately. Some other ones, like xhunter*.sys install silently and aren't easy to uninstall at all unless you go delete files in System32. Others like EasyAntiCheat/BattlEye (last I used it, been years since I've touched them) need special uninstaller .exes that are included with the game, but are not registered with Windows or don't run automatically when uninstalling the game.
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really, some anti-cheat analysis is server-side and designed to catch people acting bot-like.
Yeah, even if someone made a physical robot that did everything, they'd notice when it did stuff like playing for 1,000 hours without ever taking a break or talking to anyone.
As for not talking to anyone, a surprising amount of people play MMOs just like that, so it's not really atypical for a player to never communicate. Runescape even has an account choice, "Ironman Mode", where you have to play the game self-sufficiently, and can't trade with or rely on any other players. You can still chat with other players if you want, but you don't have to.
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my mind there's a huge difference between the 2. The sony rootkit was installed in secret, full of security holes, hard to remove, and made by a vendor that appeared to give 0 shits about said security holes. All of the anti-cheat solutions I've seen that run in kernel mode are none of those things. They make it well known that they're installing, are made by vendors that actively care about the security of their…
Genshin Impact is a recent game that has included a kernel mode anti-cheat. I would be very surprised if the majority of players know that it exists, or understand what it means to have it run in kernel mode. The Genshin website previously allowed anyone to view the phone number you have linked to your account via the password reset mechanism. Due to common reports of accounts getting stolen (and unable to be recover…
Mirror repo after the original author took the repo down, but still exploitable AFAIK.
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are also other reports of Valve not reacting to HackerOne reports appropriately I'll second that. I discovered and reported a vulnerability with the Steam client's Bluetooth pairing process via hackerone. The issue was confirmed but decided "out of scope" as apparently "within bluetooth range" runs afoul of the bug bounty's "require physical access" exclusion. 8 months later (I haven't exactly kept on top of…
Just release it. Maybe Valve will have to do something once folks start losing their precious CS:GO skins?
There is this so-called "Steam web API key scam" which is ongoing for years at this point: Scammers create phishing Steam login pages to grab people's credentials. Just with these credentials, the damage an attacker can do is still limited because of 2FA. However, the biggest flaw is that it is possible to automatically create API keys for the phished accounts that allow 24/7 remote access of these Steam accounts without the user even noticing. With this access, scammers then automatically modify and alter trades at will and at any time in the future, milliseconds before people confirm them using their mobile device (2FA), e.g., by declining the original trade and setting up a new trade with a scammer's bot account that has changed its profile data to the one of the actually intended trading partner.
This attack is mostly based on phishing, spoofing and confusion, but it could at least be made much harder by preventing automated API key generation and therefore indefinite access to an account (e.g., by implementing email confirmations or captchas for API key generation).
Each day lots of children or laypeople are losing in-game items worth thousands of dollars. I'm admin on a popular CS:GO and gaming Discord server with ~30k members and we see such reports multiple times a week.
Valve has no incentive to fix this as long as it's not their money or regulators start applying pressure.
Re: Valve accused of ignoring existing RCE vulnerability in Source games for 2 years
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your computer is really a bunch of computers pretending to be a single computer. Most of the components have firmware that can itself be loaded with malware.
Ah. So, if a Windows application runs in ring 0, it can put malware in a place such that it can then interact with the Linux install? Is there _any_ way to bypass this, apart from separate machines? I didn't know this was possible.
Depends on what the avenue of exploit you're worried about is. You can disable BIOS flashing from the OS in the BIOS, but that might still be theoretically vulnerable to, say, compromising the Intel ME environment and flashing from there; a rootkit loaded in SMM could hang around until the machine is cold power cycled (and theoretically compromise the bootloader(s) to load itself and then chainload the "real" bootloader every boot); if you want to get really invasive, you could theoretically start flashing various microcontrollers attached to the system (say, a USB flash drive, or your HDD/SSD controller) to do malicious things.
These get increasingly unlikely (and unreliable, without knowing and targeting the specific hardware you're using) as your attacker model includes less resources, but not impossible. Intel ME code execution, BIOS and SMM rootkits, malicious USB flash drive firmware and HDD firmware have all been demonstrated (I haven't seen malicious SSD firmware, but there's nothing theoretically stopping it other than the controller doing a lot more on them), and a couple have even been found in the wild.