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LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

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Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#41

Post by KozmoNau7 »

krageon wrote: post #16
breakingcups wrote: post #13

What worries me is that soon we won't be able to monitor this anymore because these devices won't be dependent on a customer-supplied internet connection anymore. Instead, they'll all have cellular connectivity and we'll have no idea what is being sent, to whom and why. And I fear that there will be no device manufacturers in the same price range left that don't include this feature. Similar to how Smart TV's are che…

> have cellular connectivity Then you'll get local shops that sell the machines painted in 2-3 layers of faraday paint (or apply some sort of cage, or solder out the antenna, etc). Or perhaps just like in the old console hardmod days everyone will know someone that can "mod" your dryer so it stops being dumb and just dries your clothes.

The devices will then refuse to function of they are unable to contact the mothership.

I would just snip off the antenna or remove the SIM, but if I can think of that, so can the manufacturers.

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#42

Post by happypenguin »

oftenwrong wrote: post #39
happypenguin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When done well it provides more than just toggling a switch on your phone. Examples are timers for lights to say turn on outdoor lights at dusk. Turning on thr garage light when the garage door opens. Double tapping the switch by thr front door to turn off all lights in your home. I'd like to think that shunning home automation isn't the answer, rather demanding open protocols and no internet connection required, suc…

Some of these things can be achieved with lower-tech sensors. Outdoor lights with light or motion sensors are common. Garage lights typically turn on automatically when the garage door opens. If you mean the human-sized door to the garage, light bulbs with built-in motion sensors are available; I have used those in entryways and in closets. I don't have a garage, but if I did it would be nice to be able to close it r…

Yep, if you rent it doesn't make as much sense. All I was pointing out is that automation is way more than just being able to flip your light on using your phone. I have ZWave switches in my home and I don't use my phone to flip any switches. For me, I like being able to program the house and customize it in any way.

A motion sensor hard wired vs one that goes back to a Zigbee/Zwave hub running OpenHab are not too different. One is some added complexity for added flexibility.

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#43

Post by MikeUt »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #22
oftenwrong wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not long after, hobbyists and hackers will be hijacking that cellular connection.

CFAA violation in America, no?

CFAA requires you to interfere with someone else's computer. Presumably, the computer in the washing machine you bought is yours, so the manufacturer would (should..) have no standing.

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#44

Post by coolspot »

rcxdude wrote: post #10
coolspot wrote: post #2

It is likely infected and is renting residential IP to web scraping companies.

Relatively unlikely in this case because from the description is seems all the traffic is to/from one EC2 IP address.

EC2 instance is an aggregator’s proxy or scraping backend itself.

Ah, wait, I just realized it can’t be if there is no any traffic other than AWS.

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#45

Post by klyrs »

MikeUt wrote: post #43
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CFAA violation in America, no?

CFAA requires you to interfere with someone else 's computer. Presumably, the computer in the washing machine you bought is yours , so the manufacturer would (should..) have no standing.

Presumably... but companies have been pushing the limits on what you can consider "yours" for a few decades now. Sure, you bought the hardware... but they might think they "own" the cellular chip because they pay for the bandwidth or something.

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#46

Post by tenebrisalietum »

breakingcups wrote: post #13

What worries me is that soon we won't be able to monitor this anymore because these devices won't be dependent on a customer-supplied internet connection anymore. Instead, they'll all have cellular connectivity and we'll have no idea what is being sent, to whom and why. And I fear that there will be no device manufacturers in the same price range left that don't include this feature. Similar to how Smart TV's are che…

Cellular providers aren't giving LG a cellular modem for free, esp. 1Gbyte/day. Unless there is going to be something that causes cellular providers to give away data, it's going to be a significant cost.

The only sustainable ways for this to work is:

A) for the data for LG to collect to be worth what it has to pay to the providers. Aside from hopefully unlikely things like LG collecting audio and visual from hidden devices on the appliance, What the hell could anyone collect from a dryer that makes it worth it to pay for a cellular connection to your dryer? Is when and how much I use a dryer worth $30/month on a 2 year contract, for example?

B) for LG to charge you a subscription to use your dryer. People won't do this dumb shit for a dryer unless the dryer is not sold to them, but rented for like $30/month--with free installation. Even then, if the monthly cost is over a certain threshold over me going down to the laundromat and putting quarters in machines there, people won't do it--last time I did laundry at laundromat recently it was $4.25 to wash and effectively $5 to fully dry and that doesn't include soap and dryer sheets.

Now if you throw in a bundled detergent and fabric softener and dryer sheet subscription on top of it, and a free service if anything goes wrong ... it might work. And then ... maybe it is worth it?

$55/mo for a free dryer and all-you-can-eat soap, softener, and sheets--brand of your choice. Like commercial copiers/toner--well, imagine if it was "pay per load".

I mean we're probably going down the road of--in a few years or a deacde--manufacturers being so cheap and the middle-class-eviscerated consumers being so disempowered and poor that it ends up being you have to replace the dryer every 2 years anyway.

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#47

Post by klyrs »

krageon wrote: post #16
breakingcups wrote: post #13

What worries me is that soon we won't be able to monitor this anymore because these devices won't be dependent on a customer-supplied internet connection anymore. Instead, they'll all have cellular connectivity and we'll have no idea what is being sent, to whom and why. And I fear that there will be no device manufacturers in the same price range left that don't include this feature. Similar to how Smart TV's are che…

> have cellular connectivity Then you'll get local shops that sell the machines painted in 2-3 layers of faraday paint (or apply some sort of cage, or solder out the antenna, etc). Or perhaps just like in the old console hardmod days everyone will know someone that can "mod" your dryer so it stops being dumb and just dries your clothes.

Sounds extremely boutique. There would almost certainly be a cat and mouse game where licensed retailers refuse to sell to these local shops, which would drive prices through the roof

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#48

Post by jcrawfordor »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #46
breakingcups wrote: post #13

What worries me is that soon we won't be able to monitor this anymore because these devices won't be dependent on a customer-supplied internet connection anymore. Instead, they'll all have cellular connectivity and we'll have no idea what is being sent, to whom and why. And I fear that there will be no device manufacturers in the same price range left that don't include this feature. Similar to how Smart TV's are che…

Cellular providers aren't giving LG a cellular modem for free, esp. 1Gbyte/day. Unless there is going to be something that causes cellular providers to give away data, it's going to be a significant cost. The only sustainable ways for this to work is: A) for the data for LG to collect to be worth what it has to pay to the providers. Aside from hopefully unlikely things like LG collecting audio and visual from hidden…

Low-usage data-only cellular service, obtained in bulk, is becoming very cheap. I have one device in my home now that use cellular service paid by the manufacturer to report back telemetry. It could have easily been WiFi, but they seem to have found the somewhat higher cost of cellular is worth it to avoid the setup complexity.

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#49

Post by breakingcups »

klyrs wrote: post #45
MikeUt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CFAA requires you to interfere with someone else 's computer. Presumably, the computer in the washing machine you bought is yours , so the manufacturer would (should..) have no standing.

Presumably... but companies have been pushing the limits on what you can consider "yours" for a few decades now. Sure, you bought the hardware... but they might think they "own" the cellular chip because they pay for the bandwidth or something.

"You merely licensed the hardware"

Re: LG dryer traffic – 1GB+ daily up/down

#50

Post by mindslight »

krageon wrote: post #16
breakingcups wrote: post #13

What worries me is that soon we won't be able to monitor this anymore because these devices won't be dependent on a customer-supplied internet connection anymore. Instead, they'll all have cellular connectivity and we'll have no idea what is being sent, to whom and why. And I fear that there will be no device manufacturers in the same price range left that don't include this feature. Similar to how Smart TV's are che…

> have cellular connectivity Then you'll get local shops that sell the machines painted in 2-3 layers of faraday paint (or apply some sort of cage, or solder out the antenna, etc). Or perhaps just like in the old console hardmod days everyone will know someone that can "mod" your dryer so it stops being dumb and just dries your clothes.

There is very little going on in any appliance that couldn't be run by a mechanical timer of yore. If there's ever a popular movement to remove the surveillance antifeatures from modern appliances (and I sure hope there will be!), it'll be as simple as popping in a different control board.

BTW does anybody know of any pointers to community projects that are making hardware for this type of thing? I've got it on my long term todo list to create a replacement board for a washer with a "bad control board", but wouldn't want to waste the effort if there are already projects doing this.

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