How people learn to become resilient (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#41

Post by ceh123 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #21

ceh123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Werner wrote. Perhaps most importantly, the resilient children had what psychologists call an “internal locus of control”: they believed that they, and not their circumstances, affected their achievements. The resilient children saw themselves as the orchestrators of their own fates. In fact, on a scale that measured locus of control, they scored more than two standard deviations away from the standardization group.…

I think we're all lucky that not everyone's goals are just to improve their own life, but that some people want to improve society too. If you were ill you'd want the doctor who told you both "here's how to cope" and "here's how we cure this thing," not the one who stopped at the first.

To quote from kiba's reply elsewhere in this thread:

>The problem is that systematic problems requiring systematic solution doesn't provide a framework for individual behavior in the meantime.

To twist your analogy around, it's more like having a doctor say "you probably got cancer because you lived next to a coal plant." Incredibly important information to have societally, should absolutely be considered and maybe even an have impact on policy. However, that does nothing for the patient today.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#42

Post by haswell » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #12

psychtrauma wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you are failing to consider those who faced trauma and failed to handle it. I would have previously agreed with you, and I think that is an important viewpoint that is useful to contemplate deeply. But, I now wish to reject the point of view that I should be proud because I faced my individual trauma somehow 'better' than those other people. Those other people shouldn't have faced that trauma either.

Trauma is the natural state of the universe. To think life should be free of trauma is a hyper-modern and sheltered view of the world enabled by our extreme comfort provided by modern technology and the invisible labor from less privelidged people and those who lived and died before us. Trauma is the natural state, and our resilience has and always will be a defining characteristic of successful people... Of whom we…

> Trauma is the natural state of the universe.

As a survivor of sexual abuse on a lifelong journey of survival, it’s difficult to communicate just how strongly I disagree with (and am repulsed by) this statement and the sentiment behind it.

It lacks awareness of the many kinds of trauma, and trivializes the experiences of those who’ve been subjected to things that are anything but natural.

Do not mistake the prevalence of something for being “natural”. Trauma, by definition, is the opposite, prevalent though it may be.

And even if you could lump all kinds of trauma into the same category, my conclusion would be very different than yours. If trauma is the natural state, then we should be doing everything to change that state, not throw up our hands and conclude “oh well, that’s just the way things are, and the best survive”.

Imagine taking this stance on slavery, or more broadly: racism.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#43

Post by watwut » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #23

ceh123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Werner wrote. Perhaps most importantly, the resilient children had what psychologists call an “internal locus of control”: they believed that they, and not their circumstances, affected their achievements. The resilient children saw themselves as the orchestrators of their own fates. In fact, on a scale that measured locus of control, they scored more than two standard deviations away from the standardization group.…

To add to this, the article mentions the need to be more specific when facing challenges and stressors. A big trend, at least in PNW leftist activism, is looking at the entire system while focusing in on flaws. No improvement is acceptable unless it is total and complete, and partial steps are even worse than doing nothing. Myanmar coup? Time to protest global capitalism. Bad conditions in a jail in Wyoming? Time to…

I have seen protests against police violence and against coups, but none of them was framed as protest against global capitalism. They also had demands. If you perceive those as being about global capitalism, you was using odd information sources. Or you lie.

Maybe you socialize only with most hardcore communists, or only with hardcore right wing, but your perception is not based on reality.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#44

Post by Godel_unicode » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

gonetherapin wrote: post #9

psychtrauma wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you are failing to consider those who faced trauma and failed to handle it. I would have previously agreed with you, and I think that is an important viewpoint that is useful to contemplate deeply. But, I now wish to reject the point of view that I should be proud because I faced my individual trauma somehow 'better' than those other people. Those other people shouldn't have faced that trauma either.

hi, made this throwaway (or maybe one to keep?) to agree with you. i'm not happy or pleased that my therapist calls me resilient. she uses the word as something positive but i'd rather not be "resilient" at all. the experience and effects of trauma are something i could do 1000% without. and i'm sure most people who have survived such an ordeal can attest to that fact.

Not being resilient doesn't mean not having to experience trauma though. If you're saying you'd be happy to not be resilient if it meant not experiencing trauma then I can see your point.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#45

Post by kiba » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

ericmcer wrote: post #13

In this sense, privilege just lets you circumvent having to learn to be resilient. You can choose the amount of stressors you want to let in. I have two friends who come from wealthy backgrounds, one is putting in 70-80hour weeks doing residency at a hospital, the other doesn't work and couldn't deal with the bay area rental market, so their parents purchased them a $1.5m home. I guess what I am getting at is there i…

As opposed to people experiencing trauma and failing to meet the challenge?

I guess no matter what backgrounds we have, we have our own ways of failing.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#46

Post by nxc18 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #33

nxc18 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way leftists approach fixing systemic issues is fundamentally incompatible with actually changing anything. The smart leftists work towards positive change by doing disgusting things like engaging in compromise and working with people who aren’t ideologically pure; when they do such things they inadvertently reveal themselves to be something far more horrible, like a liberal or a progressive-but-not-progressive-e…

Taboo on the word "leftists". You're otherizing, I don't think it's helpful. I don't see the people you're referring to as being in the driver's seat of any meaningful change that's actually being considered in a way that might actually lead to implementation.

Yes, exactly, they are not in the drivers seat because they systematically choose not to be in the drivers seat.

I don’t know if its necessarily wrong to otherize the people who smash windows in my community, spray paint graffiti on the walls (Land Back! Pigs must die! Kill cops! Rent is theft!). If anything, I think they have chosen to make themselves the enemy of the community they live in by refusing to productively engage with it.

Its really frustrating seeing people who purport to want progress actively destroy community will to make progress on things. They make things a lot harder for the people who are trying to make good changes happen.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#47

Post by TameAntelope » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

Off-topic comment: newyorker.com hasn't loaded successfully for me in Chrome for probably a few years now. Literal white page that flickers with the article for a second before going blank.

I figured it was anti-ad-blocker tech, but even disabling ad blocker and going to incognito does nothing. Calls to "https://dolphin.condenastdigital.com/engines/atmo" are the calls that seem to fail with "ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED". I don't see a similar call being made in Firefox, which does load successfully.

Is my Chrome getting fingerprinted and somehow punished for running uBlock, or is newyorker.com just broken for Chrome in certain cases? Either way, it makes using my subscription that much harder...

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#48

Post by oceanplexian » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

ericmcer wrote: post #13

In this sense, privilege just lets you circumvent having to learn to be resilient. You can choose the amount of stressors you want to let in. I have two friends who come from wealthy backgrounds, one is putting in 70-80hour weeks doing residency at a hospital, the other doesn't work and couldn't deal with the bay area rental market, so their parents purchased them a $1.5m home. I guess what I am getting at is there i…

I would argue that privilege comes in other forms than wealth, and at a certain point no amount of wealth might make up for a rough childhood, or broken relationships, and those things can drive people too. Some people don’t work 70-hour weeks because of the money, or even because they enjoy it, but because on some level they are broken and it’s an acceptable “addiction” that lets them avoid confronting their inner demons

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#49

Post by watwut » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

kian wrote: post #6

The only prescription this article appears to make is "Positive Construal" -- thinking of potentially traumatic events as opportunities for growth, learning, and forming tighter social and community bonds seems to prevent them from becoming actually traumatizing.

People naturally build bonds with others in traumatic circumstances. It is called trauma bonding. One unfortunate side effect is that it makes out harder for abuse victim to leave abuser. Unfortunately, that mechanism works regardless of who caused the initial issue.

Re: How people learn to become resilient (2016)

#50

Post by watwut » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:03 PM UTC

mikelyons wrote: post #38

kian wrote: post #6

The only prescription this article appears to make is "Positive Construal" -- thinking of potentially traumatic events as opportunities for growth, learning, and forming tighter social and community bonds seems to prevent them from becoming actually traumatizing.

Is that where "builds character" comes from?

It is how you learn to cope. It does not mean you necessary end up as overall better person. This is about people who are on edge of being dysfunctional due to issues happening to them.