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Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

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Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#41

Post by hopkins007 »

I was actually a participant in a follow up study that I read about on Hacker News about a year and a half ago. Thanks to whoever posted it I haven't been able to find the HN post since then.

Just to confirm what Alex3917 said, they did ask us to follow a meditation program before the first of either 2 or 3 sessions(I ended up with 3).

I don't know all of their selection criteria, but for the study I was in they were looking for people with existing "spiritual practices" and little or no previous psychedelic experiences.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#42

Post by bane »

zyb09 wrote: post #9

Hope not to sound like a extreme liberal, but a lot of the highly illegal hard drugs, aren't nearly as hazardous or addicting as they made out to be and can have positive effects - IF used right. That includes psilocybin, MDMA, THC, DMT, LSD and whatnot. Others are clearly toxic and very unhealthy, like crack or meth. It's all matter of being well informed about the effect and right use of the drug, as well as a havi…

Common nutmeg is more dangerous than most "hard" drugs...and we give it to children!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutmeg#Psychoactivity_and_toxic...

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#43

Post by gnosis »

hyperbovine wrote: post #24
kristofferR wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, it's a shame that that myth is still around. The study was actually retracted by the "scientist" himself after he discovered that his lab had administered methamphetamine instead of MDMA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retracted_article_on_toxicity_o... However, MDMA should certainly not be taken more than a couple of times a year. It's not something you mess around with, we don't know enough about how it affects…

> However, MDMA should certainly not be taken more than a couple of times a year. It's not something you mess around with, we don't know enough about how it affects brain chemistry yet. There are those who find those two sentences a bit curious, and those who do not.

It's interesting how so many people will balk at taking an illegal drug because they "don't want to risk brain damage", and yet will think nothing of driving or riding in a car and risking both brain damage and death nearly every day.

Mountain climbing, rock climbing, skydiving, scuba diving, and even just walking across the street all risk serious bodily injury, brain injury, and death. Yet most people won't freak out if you choose to engage in one of these activities.

But if you dare to swallow a pill every now and then, you're treated as a reckless, immoral madman.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#44

Post by hrasm »

zyb09 wrote: post #9

Hope not to sound like a extreme liberal, but a lot of the highly illegal hard drugs, aren't nearly as hazardous or addicting as they made out to be and can have positive effects - IF used right. That includes psilocybin, MDMA, THC, DMT, LSD and whatnot. Others are clearly toxic and very unhealthy, like crack or meth. It's all matter of being well informed about the effect and right use of the drug, as well as a havi…

But be warned that usage of psychotropic substances may act as a catalyst to bring out any latent psychological issues. Also, there is the possibility of a bad trip.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#45

Post by rdl »

Wingman4l7 wrote: post #17
zyb09 wrote: post #9

Hope not to sound like a extreme liberal, but a lot of the highly illegal hard drugs, aren't nearly as hazardous or addicting as they made out to be and can have positive effects - IF used right. That includes psilocybin, MDMA, THC, DMT, LSD and whatnot. Others are clearly toxic and very unhealthy, like crack or meth. It's all matter of being well informed about the effect and right use of the drug, as well as a havi…

I might remove MDMA from that list -- the head researcher at Johns Hopkins for this study was interviewed about a similar 2006 study he did; it mentions that studies at John Hopkins have shown the potential for brain damage from MDMA ("certain nerve cells", anyway). http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/Griffiths...

MDMA is much more potentially dangerous than those other drugs, especially in an acute way. The "safety factor" (ratio between dangerous dose to useful dose) is huge for THC, LSD, mushrooms, DMT, K, etc., and much smaller for MDMA, Meth, K, opiates, coke.

There are a few (DOB?) which have safety factors around 2-4x, which is really unsafe.

erowid.org is probably a much better source of info on this topic than hacker news, though.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#46

Post by makmanalp »

bane wrote: post #42
zyb09 wrote: post #9

Hope not to sound like a extreme liberal, but a lot of the highly illegal hard drugs, aren't nearly as hazardous or addicting as they made out to be and can have positive effects - IF used right. That includes psilocybin, MDMA, THC, DMT, LSD and whatnot. Others are clearly toxic and very unhealthy, like crack or meth. It's all matter of being well informed about the effect and right use of the drug, as well as a havi…

Common nutmeg is more dangerous than most "hard" drugs...and we give it to children! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutmeg#Psychoactivity_and_toxic...

This is just pure bullshit. While I'm all for drug decriminalization, I'm always stunned by the dumb half-truths its proponents come up with as justification.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myristicin

> It should also be added that when consuming raw nutmeg, only 5-15% of the mass consumed is an essential oil fraction, of which only roughly 4% is myristicin,[9] indicating the amount present overall in the nut is from 0.2-0.6%.

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/Chem_Background/ExSumPdf...

> Symptoms usually appear three to six hours after ingestion of 1-3 whole nutmegs or 5-15 gm of the grated spice.

Abnormally large quantities of a substance may be poisonous? Surprise! There is no WAY anywhere even close to that amount gets in anything we give to children. It takes my family several years to get through a single nutmeg. Myristicin is also part of anise, dill, carrot, fennel and black pepper.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#47

Post by makmanalp »

gnosis wrote: post #43
hyperbovine wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, MDMA should certainly not be taken more than a couple of times a year. It's not something you mess around with, we don't know enough about how it affects brain chemistry yet. There are those who find those two sentences a bit curious, and those who do not.

It's interesting how so many people will balk at taking an illegal drug because they "don't want to risk brain damage", and yet will think nothing of driving or riding in a car and risking both brain damage and death nearly every day. Mountain climbing, rock climbing, skydiving, scuba diving, and even just walking across the street all risk serious bodily injury, brain injury, and death. Yet most people won't freak o…

Why is this so surprising?

It's because people understand what can go wrong and how it goes wrong in all of the activities you listed above. However I'll wager that many illegal drug users don't know what goes on at all and have no clue what can go wrong. Even when they do, I think it's pretty smart to acknowledge that brain chemistry is far more complicated than car crashes, and it's harder to figure out the unexpected / long term effects of one than the other.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#48

Post by gnosis »

makmanalp wrote: post #47
gnosis wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how so many people will balk at taking an illegal drug because they "don't want to risk brain damage", and yet will think nothing of driving or riding in a car and risking both brain damage and death nearly every day. Mountain climbing, rock climbing, skydiving, scuba diving, and even just walking across the street all risk serious bodily injury, brain injury, and death. Yet most people won't freak o…

Why is this so surprising? It's because people understand what can go wrong and how it goes wrong in all of the activities you listed above. However I'll wager that many illegal drug users don't know what goes on at all and have no clue what can go wrong. Even when they do, I think it's pretty smart to acknowledge that brain chemistry is far more complicated than car crashes, and it's harder to figure out the unexpec…

Brain damage from any of the activities I listed above (including car crashes) could manifest itself in any number of ways. And it's impossible to tell ahead of time what the long-term effects of such brain damage will be.

I'm not really sure that knowledge of what can go wrong explains much about the different attitudes society at large has towards drug users vs people who engage in other risky activities (including simply riding in a car).

Most people know that if you ride in a car you could get in to a car accident and you could be maimed or killed or wind up a vegetable. How does knowing these potential effects explain the differing attitudes towards car drivers vs drug users?

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#49

Post by nolanw »

rdl wrote: post #45
Wingman4l7 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might remove MDMA from that list -- the head researcher at Johns Hopkins for this study was interviewed about a similar 2006 study he did; it mentions that studies at John Hopkins have shown the potential for brain damage from MDMA ("certain nerve cells", anyway). http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/Griffiths...

MDMA is much more potentially dangerous than those other drugs, especially in an acute way. The "safety factor" (ratio between dangerous dose to useful dose) is huge for THC, LSD, mushrooms, DMT, K, etc., and much smaller for MDMA, Meth, K, opiates, coke. There are a few (DOB?) which have safety factors around 2-4x, which is really unsafe. erowid.org is probably a much better source of info on this topic than hacker…

The "safety factor"... is huge for THC, LSD, mushrooms, DMT, K, etc., and much smaller for MDMA, Meth, K, opiates, coke.

---

I spy a repeat...

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#50

Post by makmanalp »

gnosis wrote: post #48
makmanalp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this so surprising? It's because people understand what can go wrong and how it goes wrong in all of the activities you listed above. However I'll wager that many illegal drug users don't know what goes on at all and have no clue what can go wrong. Even when they do, I think it's pretty smart to acknowledge that brain chemistry is far more complicated than car crashes, and it's harder to figure out the unexpec…

Brain damage from any of the activities I listed above (including car crashes) could manifest itself in any number of ways. And it's impossible to tell ahead of time what the long-term effects of such brain damage will be. I'm not really sure that knowledge of what can go wrong explains much about the different attitudes society at large has towards drug users vs people who engage in other risky activities (including…

That's a pretty weak argument. We know that there are certain situations in those sports that can cause brain damage, like getting hit on the head by a rock and lack of oxygen. We know them fairly well, and the majority of people avoid them successfully.

With rock climbing or driving or scuba diving, it's an "It might happen to you, but if you avoid these extreme situations it won't" situation whereas with taking drugs you can't really avoid pitfalls, other than taking care not to take too large a dose.

With drugs it's likelier to be "you get smaller amounts of damage if you take smaller doses" or plain "we don't know what the fuck this thing does".

I agree that it doesn't explain much about the attitudes. The default attitude should be ambivalent until we know more, not hostile.

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