Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#41

Post by ahelwer » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

zihotki wrote: post #36

ahelwer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again... we are talking about a long pattern of behavior. The entire point here is that Stallman faced no consequences for that incident! None! Intermediate consequences would have been nice, but none occurred! So here we have the tidal wave finally cresting over the barrier. And your response is to go back and litigate a single specific incident, saying it would have been nice if someone had written an open letter -…

And what makes you think there were no intermediate consequences about that? And what kind of consequences are you expecting? Cancel him out completely? Isn't it too radical? It seems like a standard predator behaviour to me, similar to one attributed to Stallman.

Here are some possible intermediate consequences: Stallman publicly admits wrongdoing, apologizes, specifies what beliefs led him to think those actions were appropriate, how he came to understand those beliefs were wrong, and what steps he will take in the future to not act in this way again. Maybe he also takes a leave of absence from one of his various roles. Maybe he commits to attending therapy for some length of time. Maybe the FSF or MIT directs some money to an organization supporting women in computer science. None of that happened. Nothing even close to that happened.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#42

Post by ahelwer » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #40

ahelwer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way more than the Epstein thing. This has been going on for years. Telling an undergrad he would kill himself if she didn't date him is one example.

So how should we punish him? How long did this evil act take place? Do these actions have statute of limitations? In Massachusetts rape has 15 years SoL, but clearly this is a much more severe offense.

The point is there was no punishment for that! Nor for the many other things he has done! People closed ranks and it was as if nothing happened. Now the final bill has come due. And you start talking about statute of limitations. This is someone who has acted in a consistent way over many years. He should not be a leader in a project which purports to fight for the freedom of all people. Such a role is a privilege. Statute of limitations is a legal concept applying to the legal arena. This is not that. Stop conflating them.

Re: Richard Stallman FSF support/remove letter signature counts

#43

Post by Andrew_nenakhov » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #42

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how should we punish him? How long did this evil act take place? Do these actions have statute of limitations? In Massachusetts rape has 15 years SoL, but clearly this is a much more severe offense.

The point is there was no punishment for that! Nor for the many other things he has done! People closed ranks and it was as if nothing happened. Now the final bill has come due. And you start talking about statute of limitations. This is someone who has acted in a consistent way over many years. He should not be a leader in a project which purports to fight for the freedom of all people. Such a role is a privilege .…

This is so completely wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin arguing it with.

1. The Founder of a project is the one who gets the biggest say in who should lead it, not some random virtue signalling dude from the internet.

2. Why should I stop conflating these issues? You judge the person for his actions, just like criminal judges do. However, the very criminal and ugly offense of rape is NOT punishable by the law after a number of years. But you are such a severe judge that you demand a punishment with no lenience or clemency and no statute of limitations for being an unpleasant person who is very awkward with women, and allegedly made someone uncomfortable three decades ago.

3. Found your own project, run it the way you like, decide who will have a 'privilege' to lead it.