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Joy of using linux

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Re: Joy of using linux

#41

Post by Derbasti »

Wickk wrote: post #23
Derbasti wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, he could have inserted his installation DVD and installed it from there. Also, Ubuntu ships without make, Ruby or Python, too, so I can't really see that Linux is at an advantage there. After that, both Linux and Mac are Unix systems and have package managers that can install stuff (third party on Mac). Personally, I spend most of my time in Chrome, a terminal and Vim. On OSX. Because I like it that way. Bu…

>Ubuntu ships without make, Ruby or Python Since when does Ubuntu ship without make and python? Python 2.X has been included in standard installations for quite a few releases now. I also can't remember the last time I had to manually install make.

Any time I set up an new virtual machine with some variety of Linux, I have to install some stuff to allow the VMWare extension to build. The exact requirements change from version to version, but it never worked out of the box (and I am not only talking about kernel headers here). Actually, the latest version of Ubuntu seems to include that extension out of the box, which is friggin awesome!

By the way, I think that this is not a problem at all. I'd prefer a clean, lean system to Windows any day.

Re: Joy of using linux

#42

Post by zwieback »

My main take away from this post is that you shouldn't make bad assumptions about data formats.

However, my Linux experience is much like the author's: assume you'll get something to work, find out what's missing, apt-get to the rescue.

The problem for me is when things go out of date. I try to install something and it triggers 250MB of seemingly unrelated updates. In all fairness, that usually happens when I build stuff from source, not when installing packages.

Re: Joy of using linux

#43

Post by raghava »

roel_v wrote: post #2

I like Linux as much as the next guy, but his argument is basically 'Linux couldn't open a file that everybody else could, but by dicking around with random half-assed documented tools we could do it anyway!'. Basically, 'we managed to do something that is absolutely trivial for everybody else by jumping through hoops and spending a bunch of time on it to do it the convoluted way.'. Hmm right, not exactly a compellin…

>> his argument is basically 'Linux couldn't open a file that everybody else could, but by dicking around with random half-assed documented tools we could do it anyway!'.

May be one could even interpret it like 'there are a lot of software vendors who force their users into proprietary solutions and formats but with Linux at hand, limitations could be worked around to get things done'.

Perspective, isn't it?

Re: Joy of using linux

#44

Post by kahawe »

roel_v wrote: post #2

I like Linux as much as the next guy, but his argument is basically 'Linux couldn't open a file that everybody else could, but by dicking around with random half-assed documented tools we could do it anyway!'. Basically, 'we managed to do something that is absolutely trivial for everybody else by jumping through hoops and spending a bunch of time on it to do it the convoluted way.'. Hmm right, not exactly a compellin…

I don't see how this has anything to do with "Linux" - if anything, it shows how powerful google/the internet and the open source community is since nowadays you can expect to be spoon-fed a solution for almost every problem you can come up with.

And I think "Linux IS great!" articles at this day and age are pretty much unnecessary - this battle has been fought (rather) long ago.

Re: Joy of using linux

#45

Post by raghava »

roel_v wrote: post #28
raghava wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I recollect a similar situation when I volunteered for a Linux fest. ( http://wiki.sampada.net/GNU_Linux_Install_Fest ) The venue could only accommodate 50 odd people but > 300 had registered on the eve. We needed to update all that after 10:30 am seats may be full and we might not be able to accommodate all, at 10 pm. Me and another friend of mine wrote a simple script to fetch mobile numbers of registrants, an…

Again, not an example of any form of superiority of Linux. 30 seconds of google shows us http://www.oreillynet.com/wireless/2003/10/10/sms.html , allowing you to (with a free tool from Microsoft) do the same. Oh, and you can do it over Bluetooth and infrared, in 2003 . Have you ever tried to get infrared data connections to work on Linux? I have, and I can tell you that it takes many, many times longer on Linux just…

Not to nitpick, but the above linked post says that the author of Windows XP Unwired too could not get smssender.exe to work in command line mode, to send messages in a batch.

Re: Joy of using linux

#46

Post by davidw »

The real joy of using Linux and open source software is that you realize that you are the only limitation, and that you can hack anything and everything. It's like a huge, enormous box of legos to play with:-)

Re: Joy of using linux

#47

Post by rjbond3rd »

roel_v wrote: post #40
palebluedot wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct in that a database file may contain more rich data that CSV. I think it is open to debate, however, whether a closed format like MDB is easier for the end user, over something open like SQLite.

I'd estimate that 90% of the Windows computers out there that are used for 'everyday' work have Access on them. For those users, opening the file is basically double-clicking it. For that to work with sqlite databases, one still needs to install a GUI tool first, hope that it associates the right extension with the sqlite file you have, and then get over the database-centric user interface that all of them have. Look…

I would estimate the number of Windows computers used for "everyday work" which have MS Acces on them is more like 15%. That is just in my personal experience though.

Re: Joy of using linux

#48

Post by rjbond3rd »

davidw wrote: post #46

The real joy of using Linux and open source software is that you realize that you are the only limitation, and that you can hack anything and everything. It's like a huge, enormous box of legos to play with:-)

Right on. There are no secrets in Linux. You can drill all the way down and then some.

Re: Joy of using linux

#49

Post by mbubb »

brown9-2 wrote: post #31
Joakal wrote: post #10

Wouldn't using the synaptic package manager work better? I've heard it touted as one of the reasons for Linux being superior than Windows and Mac (except for App store) by having a central repository of many programs. Want Gimp? sudo apt-get install gimp or mark Gimp in the package manager and it'll download and install all the related packages and dependencies. My only gripe is that the search is not good but Google…

Isn't Synaptic just a GUI front end to apt-get?

Yes somewhat and apt is a wrapper on top of dpkg ...

So on a Debian/Ubuntu or related system your common options are:

* dpkg

* apt-get and apt-cache

* aptitude

* synaptic

All the apt-based programs use the same /etc/apt/ files. There is a lot of overlap but specific reasons I might use one or the other.

I use aptitude to do global updates as in:

    aptitude update && aptitude safe-upgrade
Apt-get has the most commandline options.

I have not figured out how to do the following two on aptitude - so just use apt-get:

    "apt-get dist-upgrade"

    "apt-get -f"
(which is not to say it doesnt - just havent found it in 'the fine manual')

Synaptic is fun to browse. almost like an android app store. I use it looking for a fun new game for my kid to play on my laptop, etc.

And dpkg is useful for local installs (dpkg -i) and also for dpkg-reconfigure when you have to change something in the config of an installed package.

I also deal with yum/rpm (which is a similar pairing as apt/dpkg). I first learned on Debian so I have a fondness for apt.

In my experience it is pretty stable and easy to use. When I read the OP I thought the 'actually this shows how cool apt or yum can be to use'.

Re: Joy of using linux

#50

Post by mnutt »

brown9-2 wrote: post #32

I think this story speaks more to the joy of excellent package managers, something I am sorely missing in OS X.

While not integrated into the OS, Homebrew is an excellent package manager on OS X.
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