Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point is that the perceived "ubiquity" of notation is far exceeded by the plethora of ways music is recorded outside notation or recorded in a symbolic format that is nothing like western notation (from which is obviously the context of the OP). I can think of sample-based music (MPC/Decks/Acousmatic tradition/Ikeda/Microsound/Chartier/Field-recordings), improvised music, as well as the most obvious modern develop…
> as well as the most obvious modern development of MIDI data and the piano roll which is not an interchangeable format with a "score". midi is pretty much a piano-oriented subset of western music theory in terms of expressive power
Music Software and Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius (2018) [video]
41–47 of 47 posts
Re: Music Software and Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius (2018) [video]
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> as well as the most obvious modern development of MIDI data and the piano roll which is not an interchangeable format with a "score". midi is pretty much a piano-oriented subset of western music theory in terms of expressive power
Yes, it is commonly known that velocity is expressed in scores in 127 discrete and linear steps. I mean, the differences beyond the X and Y axis of time and height (pitch) are the only thing that are similar and even then traditional notation is far more expressive compared to the declarative nature of MIDI.
Re: Music Software and Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius (2018) [video]
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
lol as someone with a PhD in music and many years experience in industry and academia I can't rationalise such a reductive view of music as anything but lack of lateral thinking to imagine a world where western notation isn't king. I can think of heaps of examples where western notation absolutely isn't used- tabla bol, gamelan, zither/guqin/guzhen, indian classical music, just to name a few (and without being even s…
> lol as someone with a PhD in music and many years experience in industry and academia I can't rationalise such a reductive view of music as anything but lack of lateral thinking to imagine a world where western notation isn't king. Well, if you felt the need to "lol", let me LOL back at you :-) No PhD, but as someone with years of music training, who has travelled all over the world, and with a couple of profession…
These things are not the same, and given your earlier comment:
>Western notation is used throughout the world, even more so than local notation systems
I have assumed we're talking about notation, rather than tonality. In which case, of course someone can be using Western tonality while not using Western notation- this is a decent part of my point. I could be playing the original Renaissance organ tablature or whatever and not be using Western notation in the sense that you mean. No one is saying that Ariana Grande is operating in a non-western mode of music but I'm fairly sure you could find people who worked on her recordings who aren't working from sheet music. Your example of piano roll or NNS are also the kinds of things I am talking about, as is you know, a baroque ensemble whose lutenist is using tablature. This is because you absolutely can't say that charts and tablature are notation 'hacks'- they are, like the western notation that you're talking about, sets of instructions that tell you to varying degrees of clarity how to physically carry out a harmonic or melodic sequence. Thinking that chart=notation=tablature is similarly inaccurate as saying Western tonality=Western notation, and therefore me bringing up DAWs is entirely relevant- so is bringing up oral traditions and other contemporary modes of writing pop (etc) music that doesn't use notation.
Secondly, since we're basing our points on our experiences, here is my relevant experience: I work in professional orchestras in several countries, I've played in orchestras and sessions alongside bands, supervised students teaching modern and traditional instruments, performed in the improv circuit, worked with experimental composers and in education projects with children. The only one of these settings where I haven't encountered people who do not use western notation (the notation that you and I are talking about, with key and time signatures, staves and barlines) is professional symphony orchestras. Of course western notation is relevant given the historical dominance of western culture, but by no means is it as ubiquitous as you think it is. My colleagues teach songwriting and electronic music/sound design to hundreds of pupils without it. People teach instruments without it and make performing careers without it. I think you possibly can't see the forest of non-notated musicking that occurs for the trees and think that everyone making music everywhere is reading off a western notation score.
Re: Music Software and Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius (2018) [video]
#44Have a look at what is actually needed for someone doing arbitrary copy/engraving jobs-- e.g., making money on the side by using software to engrave film scores, modern classical, musicals, etc. IIRC the most valuable feature is the ability for the engraver to quickly and deterministically escape the set of behaviors that the software provides to ease the act of engraving exactly what they want to see. Score and Fina…
> I'm reticent to mention specific engraving problems for fear that a neophyte will take my 10 seconds of examples as a complete set
I could not agree more. Correctly engraving music is hard! If someone wants to get a sense of all the things that a professional-grade tool would need to handle, Gardner Read's "Music Notation: A Manual of Modern Practice" is kind of the gold standard here. 453 pages that solely cover how to correctly notate music. I've been doing this for years and I still consult it fairly regularly.
Re: Music Software and Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius (2018) [video]
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Music production (ie: what you hear on radio, Spotify, ...) pretty much exclusively uses the so called "piano roll" notation. Most music production software (Ableton, ...) doesn't even support Western notation.
Ableton lets you import .mid files which can be easily created from western notation using MuseScore. I use Ableton as my DAW and if I want to write something in staff notation I just write it in MuseScore (because it's got a good interface for it anyway) and export it as a midi file which I import into Ableton. For the kind of music that I make, though, there's rarely a need to write anything down. I know the parts…
Re: Music Software and Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius (2018) [video]
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> lol as someone with a PhD in music and many years experience in industry and academia I can't rationalise such a reductive view of music as anything but lack of lateral thinking to imagine a world where western notation isn't king. Well, if you felt the need to "lol", let me LOL back at you :-) No PhD, but as someone with years of music training, who has travelled all over the world, and with a couple of profession…
You seem to have conflated two points here: 1. that the majority of musicking all over the world takes place in a western tonal based system, and 2. that the majority of musicking all over the world uses western notation. These things are not the same, and given your earlier comment: >Western notation is used throughout the world, even more so than local notation systems I have assumed we're talking about notation, r…
Sure, I mostly write electronic music myself, with some small piece/band music thrown in, and I only use full notation for the latter.
But the chord names, mode names, tablature, chord diagrams, piano rolls in a DAW, tunings, chord tracks, arpegiators, etc, are all still western music notation, nomenclature and theory (and usually tonality), they're not some local ethnic tradition.
So "My colleagues teach songwriting and electronic music/sound design to hundreds of pupils without it" is kind of strained to my opinion. They do use it, and what other stuff they use is still 100% westernized, they just don't hand out the typical orchestra score sheet.
Re: Music Software and Bad Interface Design: Avid’s Sibelius (2018) [video]
#47This guy also made a similarly acerbic video about MuseScore, a good open source scorewriter [1]. They actually took his criticisms and started making changes. The two ended up working together and I think he is now the design lead for MuseScore. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZxo96x48A